Calvinist Question: Did Satan Have A Choice?

[Allan]

Allan, you are sump'n else. Or maybe your just really sump'n. Either way, you are a rarity--a non-Calvinist who accurately portrays Calvinism. Thank you.

Much appreciated .

It should be our job to understand each other as best we can, even if we disagree with certain aspects. :saint:

 

[RAdam]

God neither created man for hell nor hell for man. Matthew 25 Jesus says the goats on the left shall be told, "depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. Man is cast into this fire by reason of sin. God made man good and very good with the ability to choose the good, but also with the ability to choose the evil. Adam chose the evil, and man fell in him, thus now our will is now, in our natural state, dominated by our nature. Paul says, "I know that in my (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing." He also said we are under the dominion of sin. Until God frees us from this dominion, gives life to this new man (or inner man), we will not choose God, we will not choose the good out of a desire to please God. We will serve sin in the lusts of our flesh and our mind. Our god would be our belly.

 

[Shortandy]

:1_grouphug:

God Bless...

This is an honest question, I would ask my 2 calvinist friends but they are upset at me because I believe salvation is available to all and dont answer this one.

So, an honest question to Calvinist.

If you believe that all is predestined, that everything that has happened Good or Evil was decreed by God and that we are not in this present condition because we disobeyed God but rather because God decreed it to happen; Did Satan Have A Choice? Did The Angels Have A Choice To Rebell?

If they did have a choice to either obey or disobey God's will, then why dont we?

I have a question for your question. If angels are the measuring rod you are using here then consider this. Are angels able to be redeemed? Peter is clear in his writing that the redemption of man and our relationship with God is something that the angels long to look into. The command or opportunity for angels to be saved is not even something to debate. Therefore my friend I find your question to irrelevant to the debate of the doctrines of grace.

It is an interesting question just not one that applies to what you are trying to apply it to.

 

[TaliOrlando]

I have a question for your question. If angels are the measuring rod you are using here then consider this. Are angels able to be redeemed? Peter is clear in his writing that the redemption of man and our relationship with God is something that the angels long to look into. The command or opportunity for angels to be saved is not even something to debate. Therefore my friend I find your question to irrelevant to the debate of the doctrines of grace.

It is an interesting question just not one that applies to what you are trying to apply it to.

Are angels able to be redeemed?

I dont think Angels can repent... at least I dont think so... but the point is they had a choice to obey or disobey... Satan had a choice to obey or disobey and we have a choice.

I am glad at all the responses by my brothers and sisters on this board... it makes alot of sense.. I think I have been dealing with Hyper Calvinists then...

 

[webdog]

When an angel falls...he becomes a demon.

When a human falls...he becomes a sinner.

Christ came to die for sinners.

Using the above...what conclusion should we come to about angels being redeemed?

 

[eightball]

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Infers Satan was created a liar?

Don't think that your verse says that he/Satan never had a choice. It said that from the beginning he/Satan was a liar. So right from the "get-go" Satan is created, and goes for the dark-side, and rebells.
*******
So many folks miss the great part of God's grace which is the "freedom" He allows for man to appropriate Him as their life.

Just as a parent is blessed when his/her child chooses to obey, and express gratitude and love to that parent, God is also blessed with this attitude/choice by His creation.

What blessing of love and glorification is there for our Heavenly Father, if He received only love from those He sovereignly pre-determined before all of time in eternity-past to love Him? That's like setting up little automatons pre-set to love you. Where's the thrill, and pleasing, emotional experience for God in that?

The most beautiful part of salvation is the total transformation of lost souls with the congruent contrite, and repentant heart that is "born anew" from above, at "that moment" in time.

Often that "camp" that sees "elect" as a pre-determined position, will acuse the other camp of taking the place of God's work, by having a "hand" in their salvation.

This is so misunderstood by them. Salvation is all God's department, yet man's free-will is not unlike the manual switch that "taps into" that offered gift of eternal life.

A baby bird opens it's mouth by choice as the mom or dad bird lands on the nest. The food for life isn't in the opening of the baby's mouth, it is in the mother or father bird's mouth. It is totally the parent bird's choice to place life giving sustenance in that baby bird's mouth.

So did the baby bird create food and ensuing life in it's stomach by opening it's mouth? No. What it did do, was make a choice to "receive" life by opening it's mouth/bill by faith it it's parent.

Does the baby bird have something to brag about because it opened it's mouth. No! It does however have a lot of reasons to be thankful.

 

[billwald]

OK. What adjective might be used to describe a bird who refused the food?

 

[eightball]

OK. What adjective might be used to describe a bird who refused the food?

Wouldn't call it an adjective......."Free Will"......."Choice"? Baby bird that doesn't open mouth, just proves the point that the elect are not salvations-automatons.

 

[RAdam]

"So did the baby bird create food and ensuing life in it's stomach by opening it's mouth? No. What it did do, was make a choice to "receive" life by opening it's mouth/bill by faith it it's parent."

The baby bird doesn't "receive life" by opening its mouth. How could the bird open its mouth prior to being alive. The bird receives that which sustains life by opening its mouth. Had it kept its mouth closed, it would have starved.

 

[eightball]

"So did the baby bird create food and ensuing life in it's stomach by opening it's mouth? No. What it did do, was make a choice to "receive" life by opening it's mouth/bill by faith it it's parent."

The baby bird doesn't "receive life" by opening its mouth. How could the bird open its mouth prior to being alive. The bird receives that which sustains life by opening its mouth. Had it kept its mouth closed, it would have starved.

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!raying:

 

[Amy.G]

OK. What adjective might be used to describe a bird who refused the food?

Stupid?.................:smilewinkgrin: