Calvinists and Arminians agree

[JamesL]

Antinomianism and legalism are lock-step doctrines....

One's as bad as t'other, imo...

And yet, you ARE a legalist, thinking that your righteousness should be governed by laws and precepts instead of the Holy Spirit

Same as Arminians

 

[convicted1]

Which laws are you free to break?

 

[convicted1]

Christ fufilled the Law. We observe the Law because the Lawkeeper dwells within us...

 

[JamesL]

Which laws are you free to break?

That's the same question asked by Seventh Day Adventists, the most legalistic Christian sect around

 

[convicted1]

So, which one(s)?

We keep the Law through Christ. He didn't abolish the Law.

 

[JamesL]

Christ fufilled the Law. We observe the Law because the Lawkeeper dwells within us...

You first misunderstand the intent of the law:

But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22:34-40)


Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)


For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Galatians 5:14)


We aren't supposed to be keeping the Law. It is the ministry of death. We are to led by the Holy Spirit

 

[JamesL]

So, which one(s)?

We keep the Law through Christ. He didn't abolish the Law.

Says only the Law keeper


but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. (Ephesians 2:13-18)

Did you catch that, Willis? Christ DID abolish the law of commandments contained in ordinances

You need to enter a retraction.

 

[JamesL]

Which laws are you free to break?

Which ones are YOU free to break?

Maybe Leviticus 19:19?
Do you wear garments made of two different types of fabric, such as cotton/polyester blends?


How about Numbers 15:38-39?
Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: and it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring


Do you put blue tassels one all your clothes so that you remember to keep the whole law?


For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all (James 2:10)

 

[convicted1]

The Law condemns, the Spirit gives life, we both agree.

The Law is our schoolmaster that brought us to Christ, we both agree.

The Law showed our sinfullness, how vile we were, we both agree.

Then, why do I say what I say?

Paul was telling the church at Ephesus, a gentile church, that the Law, which had be given to the Jews, that they have now obtained that like precious faith, the same faith that was once delivered to the saints. The Law is an enemy of the flesh. Christ abolished the Law of the flesh to the church. Christ condemned sin in the flesh. The Law is now working in the hearts of His children now.

 

[JamesL]

Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty (Deuteronomy 16:16)

Willis, have you made any pilgrimages to Jerusalem lately?

If not, you're breaking the Law



also the firstborn of our sons, and of our cattle, as it is written in the law, and the firstlings of our herds and of our flocks, to bring to the house of our God, unto the priests that minister in the house of our God: and that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house. (Nehemiah 10:36-38)

Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord’s heave offering to Aaron the priest. (Numbers 18:28)


Willis, have you paid your tithes to the Levites?

If not, you're breaking the Law


For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)


So, which laws are YOU free to break, Willis?

 

[convicted1]

Christ fulfilled the Law, took all the curse of the Law. The Law was a curse to them, and conversely, us, in that it demands complete obedience. Christ was obedient, even unto death. We keep the Law through Him. I'm bowing out now...neither will relent their position. :wavey:

 

[JamesL]

The Law is our schoolmaster that brought us to Christ, we both agree.

Wrong. The Law was never YOUR schoolmaster of MY schoolmaster


But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (Galatians 3:23-25)


Read the context, Willis. Paul was contrasting COVENANTS. When Paul said "we" were under the Law, he says it was until faith came.

He was saying that OT BELIEVERS were under the Law before Jesus Christ died. Under the Old Covenant

"we" were under the Law, meaning that the Law was a set of prescriptions for a man to keep in order to have some semblance of righteous communion with God. But that was bondage, shutting them all up under sin.

But now that Christ has died, and the Spirit has been given, believers are no longer under the Law.


The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (Galatians 3:11-12)

 

[convicted1]

In that last post you posted "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ...."


G'day. :wavey:

 

[JamesL]

In that last post you posted "The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ...."

And if you look at the context, you should see that OUR is speaking of those who practiced Judaism under the Old Covenant

But context? What's that, right?

 

[convicted1]

And he was writing to a gentile church...context? Yup.

 

[JamesL]

I'm bowing out now...neither will relent their position. :wavey:

That's fine, Willis. Just take note of the fact that every single argument you made in favor of law-keeping, has also been made by Arminians

As much as you'd like to think you have nothing in common with your cousins, you do

 

[convicted1]

I have zero problem...have no clue why you think that offends me...


A five-point Arminian is more solid than what some on here posts.

They at least hold to OS and being born spiritually dead...

Arminians are my Brothers and Sisters, too...

 

[JamesL]

And he was writing to a gentile church...context? Yup.

Yup, a Gentile church which had been infiltrated by Judaizers, even to the point that Peter got caught up in their error. And Paul had to confront him to his face

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. (Galatians 2:11-12)

Maybe you weren't aware of the thrust of the entire epistle

 

[JamesL]

I have zero problem...have no clue why you think that offends me...

Who said I think it offends you?

It's just a matter of hypocrisy, when you rail against Arminians for fabricating a God of their liking. You have fabricated a righteousness of your liking.

One in which you are comfortable observing select commandments, discarding the rest, and trying to blend Christ in as a "helper" to make up for any deficiencies you might have in your law-based endeavor

 

[convicted1]

Whatever helps you sleep better at nights....