LOL come on brother, just answer the question
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Calvinists are synergists
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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If you don't know the answer to that question you really should not try to debate in this subforum.
. . .However, the idea of irresistibility conjures up the idea that one cannot possibly offer any resistance to the grace of God. However, the history of the human race is the history of relentless resistance to the sweetness of the grace of God. Irresistible grace does not mean that God’s grace is incapable of being resisted. Indeed, we are capable of resisting God’s grace, and we do resist it. The idea is that God’s grace is so powerful that it has the capacity to overcome our natural resistance to it. It is not that the Holy Spirit drags people kicking and screaming to Christ against their wills. The Holy Spirit changes the inclination and disposition of our wills, so that whereas we were previously unwilling to embrace Christ, now we are willing, and more than willing. Indeed, we aren’t dragged to Christ, we run to Christ, and we embrace Him joyfully because the Spirit has changed our hearts. . .
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Irresistible Grace
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Irresistible Grace
Do you just not want to say the answer? When does Man's will interlace with God's Will (in response to the Gospel) in your theology? After he is regenerated and upon Belief?
Thank you
Regeneration precedes faith. That's where the two sides differ.
If one had to produce faith in Christ, as an enemy of God, prior to rebirth, no one would do so.
God's word, just as in creation, and just as in Lazarus being raised from the dead, produces life. He speaks and life springs forth.
One could no more resist his rebirth than he could his birth.
You're welcome.
So men cooperate with God after regeneration(in your theology), and you believe the opposing view believes they cooperate with God before regeneration? Is that Accurate?
IN the calvy world it doesnt mean the Lord was working with them it means the Lord was not working with them. Everything is the opposite and the plain meaning of words and phrases are never to be believed.
I think his point was that respected manuscript evidence indicates the absence of συνεργὸν. Personally I believe the word is attested to by the majority of Greek manuscripts, so the point is not really the variant, but rather that Timothy was a fellow-laborer with Paul in the ministry, not that the preacher is the fellow-laborer with the sinner, contributing to the sinner's salvation (IE synergy). Which is simply preposterous. I have been preaching for almost 50 years and I have never saved anyone. God, and God alone, saves sin sick souls.
OK its present in the traditional TR's as well as the MT so I'm sure its an inspired word.
I suppose its missing in ALEPH and Vaticanus. I don't see it in the WH text.
Oh of course it doesn't mean a man can assist God in salvation. We are the messenger boys, the bus drivers.
My post was that we not forget the importance of those whom God uses to assist in the giving of the message and in-gathering to a local church.
Missionaries, preachers, pastors, deacons, teachers...
Here is one which synergists will like:
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers (συνεργοί) together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
No variant here.
HankD
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Trinity is at least found in the Confessions. Not so with this word monergism.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Well... This passage is in the longer ending of Mark, so....
In spite of the ridiculous tone and nature of your statement, there is something to address. We have no problem with God working with us. He does so at His good pleasure and for His glory. But, the notion that we work with God--for our salvation--is laughable.
The Archangel
Please clarify...how does God work with someone (or how would we work with God) in Salvation? What is the point of contention?
From CARM.org
Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible.
So, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, before regeneration, is Cooperating with God? Is that what the reformed guys on this board believe?
Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible.
So, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, before regeneration, is Cooperating with God? Is that what the reformed guys on this board believe?
Am I the only one who thinks the debate of Monergism vs. Synergism is asinine? Even the Monergist believes one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to consummate Salvation. It's a fallacious statement to say "God is the sole agent involved in Salvation." Man Still must *respond*. Salvation is totally of the Lord, no Doubt...from regeneration to glorification, but He still demands a response to The Good News, and Man's will is clearly a factor in "believing on the Lord."
One side believes man cooperates after regeneration, the other side believes man cooperates before regeneration. God is the one who brings about Salvation.
One side believes man cooperates after regeneration, the other side believes man cooperates before regeneration. God is the one who brings about Salvation.
Focus on the other end too brother,
1000 men cooperate to listen to the gospel
while 1000 women REFUSE to listen to the gospel.
You can bet with a 100% certainty all the women are damned because they didn't make the cooperative SYNERGY choice to listen like the men did.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Like most things, the proverbial devil is in the details.
Monergism vs. Synergism isn't so much about the acceptance of salvation as it is the accomplishing of salvation. In my experience, the synergist generally argues that God saves him (or her) for salvation because He (God) foresaw the person's choice in the future. Hence, the "God foreknew what I'd choose" argument. So, ultimately salvation is based on man's initiating and it is that to which God responds.
The monergist believes that God chose whom to save based, not on any foreseen faith, but according to His good pleasure. Yes, the monergist believes man must respond to God in repentance and faith, but that is the result of God's electing work, not the cause of it.
So, the debate isn't asinine, though some of the arguments I've seen in my time on Baptist Board have been. The debate centers around a central question: Does Christ accomplish salvation or does Christ make salvation possible. The monergist would argue Christ's death accomplishes our salvation. In my experience, the synergist would argue that our salvation is only accomplished when we believe. So the synergist argues for a conditional salvation while the monergist argues for an actual salvation.
Blessings,
The Archangel
But it still doesn't say we contribute to the salvation of souls. That is God's venue, not ours. Ours is to preach the gospel to everybody we can. It is His job to save whom He will.
I fear you don't understand Monergism.
And that's fine, that's why I'm asking questions. Help me understand.I fear you don't understand Monergism.
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