Calvinists are synergists

[TCassidy]

So, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, before regeneration, is Cooperating with God? Is that what the reformed guys on this board believe?

No. Prior to regeneration the lost man is God's enemy, he not only will not, he cannot believe. It is only God's regenerating Grace that allows the man to believe, repent, and obey. Lost people don't do that.

 

[TCassidy]

Help me understand.

The error is to conflate regeneration with salvation. Regeneration results in faith which results in salvation, positional, progressive, and permanent.

 

[TCassidy]

IN the calvy world it doesnt mean the Lord was working with them it means the Lord was not working with them. Everything is the opposite and the plain meaning of words and phrases are never to be believed.

There is no truth in your post.

 

[JonShaff]

The error is to conflate regeneration with salvation. Regeneration results in faith which results in salvation, positional, progressive, and permanent.

So one must Believe in order to be saved, correct?

 

[JonShaff]

No. Prior to regeneration the lost man is God's enemy, he not only will not, he cannot believe. It is only God's regenerating Grace that allows the man to believe, repent, and obey. Lost people don't do that.

But you say synergists believe that they cooperate with God. How so?

 

[JonShaff]

The error is to conflate regeneration with salvation. Regeneration results in faith which results in salvation, positional, progressive, and permanent.

Also, wouldn't you say that Regeneration = Spiritual Union with Christ = being made alive = Sonship = heirship? All this happens before faith? Hmm...

 

[thatbrian]

Trinity is at least found in the Confessions. Not so with this word monergism.

You are now answering a question you didn't ask, which makes any honest debate impossible.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well... This passage is in the longer ending of Mark, so....



In spite of the ridiculous tone and nature of your statement, there is something to address. We have no problem with God working with us. He does so at His good pleasure and for His glory. But, the notion that we work with God--for our salvation--is laughable.

The Archangel

But we do when we preach the gospel.

 

[Revmitchell]

Am I the only one who thinks the debate of Monergism vs. Synergism is asinine? .

Nope, because there is no such thing as a monergist.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your understanding of "Synergist" is fallacious and flawed. Calvinists, such as myself, whole-heartedly agree we must believe to be saved. The hyper-Calvinist does not, but hyper-Calvinists are outside the orthodoxy

The Archangel

I am struck by your comment on hyper-Calvinist. Could you detail just who and what you think a hyper Calvinist is?

In any event, a Calvinist (I believe anyway) holds to a Theocentric prospective of God...ie, not just Deo Gloria, but Soli Deo Gloria. Now perhaps that is what you mean by hyper Calvininst and if so then I am of that camp.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nope, because there is no such thing as a monergist.

I disagree

 

[TCassidy]

Also, wouldn't you say that Regeneration = Spiritual Union with Christ = being made alive = Sonship = heirship?

No, I wouldn't. Again your are conflating several different things.

 

[TCassidy]

I disagree

Anyone with an IQ greater than his hat size disagrees.

 

[kyredneck]

I’m not disagreeing that faith comes by hearing or that the gospel is the power of God to salvation. I am, however, disagreeing with your conclusions about what those statements mean.

The Archangel

I understand that. However, if one believes others are "synergists"because they see in scripture that we must believe to be saved, then you must also claim to be a "synergist" if you believe man must preach the gospel for men to be saved. Else you are involved in an inconsistency.

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus – “There is no salvation outside the church”

IMO, Cals and non-Cals alike are in agreement with Rome on this, in principle. Thus both are 'synergistic' in this sense.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anyone with an IQ greater than his hat size disagrees.

Don’t candy coat it Tom

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Bondage of the Will, the Sovereignty of Grace, and the Glory of God

 

[The Archangel]

But we do when we preach the gospel.

Of course, that's not the case. And your insistence on this point demonstrates that you don't understand what monergism and synergism are as they relate to salvation.

But, as I said earlier: The preacher does not work "in cooperation" with God. The preacher is the means of the delivering the gospel. Just as no one in their right mind would claim a newspaper delivery boy is involved in the publication of said newspaper, no one in their right mind can rightly claim that the preacher delivering the gospel has anything to do with the salvation it proclaims.

The Archangel

 

[The Archangel]

I am struck by your comment on hyper-Calvinist. Could you detail just who and what you think a hyper Calvinist is?

In any event, a Calvinist (I believe anyway) holds to a Theocentric prospective of God...ie, not just Deo Gloria, but Soli Deo Gloria. Now perhaps that is what you mean by hyper Calvininst and if so then I am of that camp.

One of my seminary professors once joked, "A hyper-Calvinist is someone who is more Calvinistic than you are." We all got a good laugh out of that, and he wasn't being serious.

Hyper-Calvinism is generally defined as the belief that the elect can and will be saved without the preaching of the Gospel. The outworking of this thought is that missions are, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, sinful.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[thatbrian]

One of my seminary professors once joked, "A hyper-Calvinist is someone who is more Calvinistic than you are." We all got a good laugh out of that, and he wasn't being serious.

Hyper-Calvinism is generally defined as the belief that the elect can and will be saved without the preaching of the Gospel. The outworking of this thought is that missions are, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, sinful.

Blessings,

The Archangel

Thanks for clearing that up. I had always thought that a hyper Calvinist was a guy who drank too much coffee.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One of my seminary professors once joked, "A hyper-Calvinist is someone who is more Calvinistic than you are." We all got a good laugh out of that, and he wasn't being serious.

Hyper-Calvinism is generally defined as the belief that the elect can and will be saved without the preaching of the Gospel. The outworking of this thought is that missions are, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, sinful.

Blessings,

The Archangel

I had a sister who was brain damaged. If you attempted to preach the gospel to her it would not register. Your synerio is a fruitless one for someone like her. So are you telling me she died without knowing the Lord and are thus relegated to hell?