To quote the BB's very own Aaron, "Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, "Why doth He still find fault?""
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Calvinists Should Be Calmest and Kindest
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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To quote the BB's very own Aaron, "Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, "Why doth He still find fault?""
There is nothing like 'worldly logic'. Nowhere do scriptures (except in some of the most inconsistent and absurd theological constructs imagined) does God offer men an impossible-to-receive salvation. Stop mocking God by proof-texting.
A God who does not Will that any may perish would do anything to prevent any from perishing such that any perishing is really up to them.
A God who does not Will that any may perish would do anything to prevent any from perishing such that any perishing is really up to them.
WHY does God offer them salvation? Is He mocking them?
Did Jesus die for them?
And does God LOVE them?
Did Jesus die for them?
And does God LOVE them?
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Out of context:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3
You-ward. Peter was the apostle to the Jews and the 'perishing' here is not eternal torment in hell, but the wrath that was soon to come upon 'that generation' of Jews that murdered Christ. There were many of His children that were resistant to leaving The Harlot, and He gave them a full 40 years to change their minds and escape before the awful retribution of A.D. 66-70 descended upon them, the alternative was to be swept away with the wicked in their judgement:
21 And I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent of her fornication. Rev 2
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: Re 18
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2
I don't know that He does. It's conspicuous that there's no command given to 'evangelize' the tares; they were actually told to leave them be to come to their fruition:
28 And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.
36 Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
42 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear. Mt 13
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Once again, they don't belong to Him.
Did God love Esau?
Is God INDIFFERENT to these?
Absolutely so much as to give him an inheritance.
'For God so loved the world that He gave...'
'God commended His love to us in that while we were yet sinners....'
Once again, does God LOVE these for whom He gave NOTHING nor commended His LOVE?
'For God so loved the world that He gave...'
'God commended His love to us in that while we were yet sinners....'
Once again, does God LOVE these for whom He gave NOTHING nor commended His LOVE?
By Esau you mean the Edomites, right?
We can know nothing in any detail about God save through His word. Stop mocking Him by disregarding it.
Kyredneck has already explained to you your faulty understanding of 2 Peter 3:9. However, if God left the issue of perishing up to men, then all, without exception would perish. 'As it is written, "there is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God"' (Romans 3:9-10).
Praise God for Irresistible Grace!
Lol. Smarter than Job and his friends, are you?
Here's a commandment. Be therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Possible for you, or not?
Then God's will is thwarted at the whim of men. Do you pray for the salvation of men? Applying logic, if it really is up to them, it would seem a foolish and vain prayer.
Aaron let's look at scripture, shall we?
Malachi 1:2-4 “I have shown love to you,” says the Lord, but you say, “How have you shown love to us?” “Esau was Jacob’s brother,” the Lord explains, “yet I chose Jacob
and rejected Esau. I turned Esau’s mountains into a deserted wasteland and gave his territory to the wild jackals.”
Edom says, “Though we are devastated, we will once again build the ruined places.” So the Lord who rules over all responds, “They indeed may build, but I will overthrow. They will be known as the land of evil, the people with whom the Lord is permanently displeased.
If you think the singular person of "Esau" is the subject of God's "hate" (I'm certain you don't understand the idea of hate either) you need to rethink your entire philosophy of how you interpret scripture.
Edit to add--Is God's rhetorical question to a dead Jacob or the nation of Israel?
Malachi 1:2-4 “I have shown love to you,” says the Lord, but you say, “How have you shown love to us?” “Esau was Jacob’s brother,” the Lord explains, “yet I chose Jacob
and rejected Esau. I turned Esau’s mountains into a deserted wasteland and gave his territory to the wild jackals.”
Edom says, “Though we are devastated, we will once again build the ruined places.” So the Lord who rules over all responds, “They indeed may build, but I will overthrow. They will be known as the land of evil, the people with whom the Lord is permanently displeased.
If you think the singular person of "Esau" is the subject of God's "hate" (I'm certain you don't understand the idea of hate either) you need to rethink your entire philosophy of how you interpret scripture.
Edit to add--Is God's rhetorical question to a dead Jacob or the nation of Israel?
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Wow such a contrast between PB dogma and the Biblical evangelical impulse.
Even Monergism.com features the great Calvinist Thomas Adams [1583-1653] preaching that:
Monergism Classic Essays and Articles - Thomas Adams "A Diagnosis"
Looking at Scripture, let's look at that inheritance . . . where is Edom represented on the breastplate of the High Priest?
But the question of God's love and God's election are different questions. Just like you are to love all men, and all women, but only one other individual is your wife. Does that mean you don't love your wife's sister? Her friends? Your neighbors? And yet on a sinking ship, whom would you elect to save?
God is not constrained. The point of the example is the difference between love and election. Jacob and Esau were equal. His election of Jacob before He was born, (which was an individual election) was based solely and completely upon God's sovereign will. His rejection of Esau (which was an individual rejection) was based on the same. At this moment, one is in Heaven and the other is in Hell suffering torment and the heat of God's indignation and wrath. (An indignation and wrath no less deserved by Jacob).
Tell me again, that Esau is the object of God's love.
God is not constrained. The point of the example is the difference between love and election. Jacob and Esau were equal. His election of Jacob before He was born, (which was an individual election) was based solely and completely upon God's sovereign will. His rejection of Esau (which was an individual rejection) was based on the same. At this moment, one is in Heaven and the other is in Hell suffering torment and the heat of God's indignation and wrath. (An indignation and wrath no less deserved by Jacob).
Tell me again, that Esau is the object of God's love.
Yes, but not in a Covenant relationship way. God loves all sinners, but only has a real love towards those He will redeem for His own possession. Since we do not know who those are, still ned to preach/teach to all so that God will save some!
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