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Campolo denies Omnipotence of God

Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
You know what - that's just pretty good stuff.
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You think this statement is "pretty good stuff?"
Perhaps we would do well to listen to the likes of Rabbi Harold Kushner, who contends that God is not really as powerful as we have claimed. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that God is omnipotent.
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T

Terry_Herrington

New Member
I have read Kushner's book and thought it was quite insightful. Not that I agree with all of his views, but I enjoyed reading his perspective.

I also tend to agree with Campolo's assessment.
 
L

LorrieGrace

Member
I wasn't being flip when I asked if he was helping Michael Jackson. I was just curious, trying to put a name with a face.
 
G

guitarpreacher

New Member
Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
You know what - that's just pretty good stuff.
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You think this statement is "pretty good stuff?"
Perhaps we would do well to listen to the likes of Rabbi Harold Kushner, who contends that God is not really as powerful as we have claimed. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that God is omnipotent.
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</font>[/QUOTE]As for me, I do believe that God is omnipotent, and that statement standing alone is something I would have a problem with. But Tony Campolo didn't say that, he's quoting someone else. And he didn't say that we should blindly accept everything the Rabbi says, he simply says consider his perspective, which fits the point Campolo is trying to make, which is instead of asking why (which we have done a tremendous amount of on this board) and start asking what next.
 
K

Kiffen

Member
I don't think we should accept the perspective on an unregenerate Rabbi who denies Jesus is the Christ. His theological view is irrelevant.

Campolo who I use to defend and admire has over the years went more into unorthodoxy. The fact is we know,"His way is in the whirlwind and the storm," (Nahum 1:3) and it is the will of God. It is not as complicated as Campolo tries to make it. The unregenerate will not understand but those who have Faith trust in the goodness of God rather than try to question His omnipotence by quoting an unbeliever who denies Jesus as the Son of God.
 
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guitarpreacher

New Member
You can learn from someone without accepting everything about thier perspective, especially if the person is an Old Testament scholar. I'd hate to think I had to agree with every word and idea a person has before I could gain from their insights and perspectives.

And even if you throw out that one paragraph concerning God's omnipotence, the rest of what TC wrote was excellent, and words we should consider.
 
K

Kiffen

Member
GP, I don't view the theology of a unregenerate rabbi who does not have the Spirit of God has being valid. I am surprised Campolo would use him as a valid source as if Kushner's theology really matters.

Campolo implies that he is confused over the nature of God and I believe he is.
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
As for me, I do believe that God is omnipotent, and that statement standing alone is something I would have a problem with. But Tony Campolo didn't say that, he's quoting someone else. And he didn't say that we should blindly accept everything the Rabbi says, he simply says consider his perspective, which fits the point Campolo is trying to make, which is instead of asking why (which we have done a tremendous amount of on this board) and start asking what next.
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He's not just quoting Kushner, he's saying we should consider Kushner's view that God is not omnipotent. This statement, even in context, makes it sound like Campolo thinks Kushner might be correct.

I agree with some of Campolo's views on politics and some other issues, but some of his theological statements leave something to be desired.

This is from a 2003 article (largely favorable to Campolo) in Christianity Today:
In 1985, a group of Evangelical Free Church pastors in Illinois convinced Bill Bright to cancel Campolo's appearance at Youth Congress '85, the first major joint rally by Bright's Campus Crusade and Youth for Christ. Specifically, they were upset that Campolo believed Christ was present in every person, Christian or not. "I do not mean that others represent Jesus for us," he wrote in A Reasonable Faith, a 1983 book aimed at secularists. "I mean that Jesus actually is present in each other person."

They were also upset with two other sentences in the book: "Jesus is the only Savior, but not everybody who is saved by Him is aware that He is the one who is doing the saving," and "Jesus is God because he is fully human." ("By human I mean a full expression of the image of God," he later explained.)

. . . To resolve the debate, the Christian Legal Society called a four-member "reconciliation panel" together, and questioned the sociologist-evangelist for six hours. A week later, the panel, headed by theologian J. I. Packer, issued a statement calling Campolo's book "methodologically naïve and verbally incautious."

The panel rejected Campolo's more controversial arguments. Jesus is God, but not because he is fully human, they said: "True humanness is certainly God's moral image, but the Son is the Father's image ontologically, within the unity of the eternal Trinity, and no human creature can ever share that." Similarly, the panel decided, Campolo's argument that Christ is present in every human is unsupported by Scripture. "We ascribe this unbiblical faux pas to evangelical inadvertence," said the panel. But the inquisitors also defended Campolo against charges of heresy "since heresy implies a purpose of making novel notions normative for Christian thought."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/001/1.32.html
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I think to be told to consider Kushner's view of God is insulting to a Christian.
 
A

Andy T.

Active Member
Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
I never realized how much it bothers you guys that not everyone 100% agrees with you.
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So, are we not allowed to disagree with someone? What is your point?
 
P

Pipedude

Active Member
Indeed, why would we "do well to listen to the likes of Rabbi Harold Kushner" if Kushner's view is unbiblical? What kind of counsel is that? "This contradicts God's word, but I think it would help you to understand your tragedy."

To the degree that anyone listens to Kushner's denial of God's omnipotence, to that degree he will be led away from understanding God's relationship to Katrina.

(Disclaimer: I read heretics all the time, I just don't recommend that people consider their unbiblical claims as helpful.)
 
G

guitarpreacher

New Member
Quote: "Kushner points out that omnipotence is a Greek philosophical concept, but it is not in his Bible. Instead, the Hebrew Bible contends that God is mighty. That means that God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined."

Can you use Scripture to prove that to be incorrect?
 
A

Andy T.

Active Member
Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
Quote: "Kushner points out that omnipotence is a Greek philosophical concept, but it is not in his Bible. Instead, the Hebrew Bible contends that God is mighty. That means that God is a greater force in the universe than all the other forces combined."

Can you use Scripture to prove that to be incorrect?
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Genesis 17:1 (and all other references to God being Almighty)
Genesis 18:14
Job 42:1-6
Matthew 19:26
Luke 1:37
 
A

Andy T.

Active Member
First, Kushner uses the word "mighty". The Bible repeatedly uses the word "almighty". Almighty means omnipotent according to my dictionary.

The verses I listed above are clear on the matter. God is omnipotent.
 
A

Andy T.

Active Member
Oh, and here is the clincher - Rev. 19:6 (NKJV):

And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!
 
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go2church

Active Member
Site Supporter
You only read books from people who are Christians? Hey, you are missing some great books, not to mention some insight into the persepective of the unbeliever.
 
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