Can a Christian sin?

[Brother Bob]

Any sin is breaking the Law, whether it is the 10 commandments or the two commandments Christ gave.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
Mat 22:38 "This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
Mat 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


Not visit the sick. This would violate the 1st commandment of the Law and the 2nd commandment of Christ

Fail to assemble thyselves together. This would violate the 1st commandment of the Law and the 1st commandment of Christ.

Let the poor go hungry even though you could help. Violates the 1st commandment.

Fail to walk like a Christian. Violates the 1st commandment and possibly the 2nd (idolotry)

Open your mouth, when you should keep it shut. Violates the 1st commandment and possibly the 9th (lying, false witness).

Anything that is not Christlike. Violates the 2nd commandment.

Anything that is not of faith, is sin. Violates the 1st commandment and possibly the 2nd (idolotry).


Anything that takes precedent over God is sin.
"you shall have no other gods before Me"
"you shall not make for yourself an idol"
Anything that comes before God is an idol. Selfishness is making an idol of self.

I think anytime we sin, regardless of the specific sin, we have broken the first commandment, "you shall have no other gods" and "you shall love your God with all your heart, soul and mind". When we sin, we are not loving God, we are loving self.

Jam 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Even when a sin is something we may perceive as small,we are guilty of breaking the whole law.



I will say that making this list has really saddened me at how sinful I really am. :tear:

And what is the sin that is not unto death, but receives chatisement to correct you??

Also, name what is a sin unto death.

Also, if you visit not the sick, you say we have committed murder, adultery, theif, liar, worship Idols, dishonor Father and Mother, etc.

You are putting "visit not the sick" in the same class as murder. I think if you murder, you are in "real" trouble, if you "visit not the sick", you will receive chastisement from God.

Do you think you are in the same trouble by not visiting the sick, as you would be killing your husband??

Would your church deal with both the same??

BBob,

 

[Bro. James]

We all sin daily--usually by way of omission. We know to do right, and fail to do right.

Whether we get to heaven or not has nothing to do with how much we sin or not; or do good works or not.

Jesus paid it all. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags--like soiled hospital linen.

The Lord knows them that are His and they answer His call. He put their names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world--just as Jesus is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. GRACE, GRACE, GRACE

We are justified by the blood of Jesus only--our good works are acceptable only per that justification. GRACE. GRACE. GRACE

Yes, there will be those who will see their works burned, yet they are saved--yet so as by fire(not purge-atory). There will be those who receive a reward--for being good and faithful servants. The reward is not salvation. GRACE, GRACE,GRACE

See Eph. 2:8-10.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[DHK]

Nay, one of them was not guilty until he took his brother to court.

It seems that you are back-tracking in your position now Bob.
Maybe you have finally seen the light.

Of course they weren't guilty until they took their brother to court. That is what the whole passage is talking about. Paul is rebuking them for taking one another to court. Where have you been?

Here were two brothers. They were suing each other. They were both guilty.
We have been discussing this ad nauseum.

I have posted this verse now too many times to count.

1 Corinthians 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
1. They were brethren (vs. 6)
2. They were doing wrong.
3. They defrauded each other.
4. Specifically they defrauded their own brethren, and that before an unbelieving civil court.

These were believers in court. Steaver started this conversation for you, in light of your problem, or position stating that such people who steal and cheat would never go to heaven. Yet here they are: believers, cheating one another (defrauding), rebuked by Paul for doing so, and not losing their salvation for doing so.

 

[Brother Bob]

We all sin daily--usually by way of omission. We know to do right, and fail to do right.

Whether we get to heaven or not has nothing to do with how much we sin or not; or do good works or not.

Jesus paid it all. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags--like soiled hospital linen.

The Lord knows them that are His and they answer His call. He put their names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world--just as Jesus is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. GRACE, GRACE, GRACE

We are justified by the blood of Jesus only--our good works are acceptable only per that justification. GRACE. GRACE. GRACE

Yes, there will be those who will see their works burned, yet they are saved--yet so as by fire(not purge-atory). There will be those who receive a reward--for being good and faithful servants. The reward is not salvation. GRACE, GRACE,GRACE

See Eph. 2:8-10.

Selah,

Bro. James

Are you saying that Christians haven't changed, that they still kill, steal, worship idols, or are you saying that Christians have been forgiven of their sins and Jesus said "go and sin no more".

Are Christians still lending their members to serve Satan?? Are we still not only sinning against God, but against our own bodies?? Are we no different than the world??

Does having the blood applied to our soul, set us free to commit any sin known unto mankind, without consequences??

BBob,

 

[Amy.G]

And what is the sin that is not unto death, but receives chatisement to correct you??

Also, name what is a sin unto death.

Also, if you visit not the sick, you say we have committed murder, adultery, theif, liar, worship Idols, dishonor Father and Mother, etc.

You are putting "visit not the sick" in the same class as murder. I think if you murder, you are in "real" trouble, if you "visit not the sick", you will receive chastisement from God.

Do you think you are in the same trouble by not visiting the sick, as you would be killing your husband??
The sin unto death is a debatable subject that is best left aside in this discussion, IMO. So I won't address it.

I am not putting sins into categories, like big sins vs. little sins. Yes, in our world (earthly), murder is certainly a more serious sin than not visiting the sick. But any sin, no matter how small makes us guilty before God. The wages of (any) sin is death. Spiritually speaking, all sin is transgression against God. If the only sin you ever committed in your entire life was not visiting the sick, you would still go to hell if you failed to put your faith in Christ. We need Christ's blood to wash away all of our sins, even the little ones.

Would your church deal with both the same??

BBob,

In God's eyes they both require repentance and forgiveness.

 

[Joe]

In considering punishment for sins unto death, Jesus seems to have a theme in whether he will forgive or not.

The combination of pride and wickedness appears to indicate the Lord will NOT forgive that sin, and will be angry and/or cast punishment onto the person.
Pride is what caused Satan to fall.

Examples:

• When Cain Killed Abel, he replied to the Lord's inquiry "Am I not my brothers Keeper?" , a smart eleck reply. So the Lord punished Cain, making him a vegabond telling him "his brothers blood called out to him from the ground" Cain showed had no remorse for his sins, he was unrepentant. Gen 4:9-1
  
• When the pharisees plotted to entangle Jesus in his words, asking him if it is lawful to pay taxes to Ceasar, he perceived their wickedness and called them a name saying "Why do you test me, you hypocrites ?" Matt 22:18
  
• The lady caught in adultery he (Jesus) did not chastise, he told her to simply "I don't condemn you either, go and sin no more" John 8:11

Ezekiel 7: 10-11

10 Behold, the day!
Behold, it has come!
Doom has gone out;
The rod has blossomed,
Pride has budded.
Violence has risen up into a rod of wickedness;
None of them shall remain,
None of their multitude,
None of them;
Nor shall there be wailing for them.

 

[Brother Bob]

In God's eyes they both require repentance and forgiveness.

So, your church would bring someone up before the church for not visiting the sick, or not giving to the poor??? Honestly?

Amy; not to be rude, but I just can't imagine your church dealing with someone who failed to go to the nursing home, the same as someone who killed the Pastor.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

In considering punishment for sins unto death, Jesus seems to have a theme in whether he will forgive or not.

The combination of pride and wickedness appears to indicate the Lord will NOT forgive that sin, and will be angry and/or cast punishment onto the person.
Pride is what caused Satan to fall.

Examples:

• When Cain Killed Abel, he replied to the Lord's inquiry "Am I not my brothers Keeper?" , a smart eleck reply. So the Lord punished Cain, making him a vegabond telling him "his brothers blood called out to him from the ground" Cain showed had no remorse for his sins, he was unrepentant. Gen 4:9-1
• When the pharisees plotted to entangle Jesus in his words, asking him if it is lawful to pay taxes to Ceasar, he perceived their wickedness and called them a name saying "Why do you test me, you hypocrites ?" Matt 22:18
• The lady caught in adultery he (Jesus) did not chastise, he told her to simply "I don't condemn you either, go and sin no more" John 8:11

Ezekiel 7: 10-11

10 Behold, the day!
Behold, it has come!
Doom has gone out;
The rod has blossomed,
Pride has budded.
Violence has risen up into a rod of wickedness;
None of them shall remain,
None of their multitude,
None of them;
Nor shall there be wailing for them.

I think the woman received salvation and forgiveness and was told to go and sin no more.

BBob,:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

I think the woman received salvation and forgiveness and was told to go and sin no more.

BBob,:thumbs:

But we are not told if she sinned no more. Perhaps she did. She was given salvation, but no guarantee that she didn't sin again.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

It would be very apparent at this point that several on the list hold to the following idea. It is held by some that all believers sin, yet sin does not separate the believer from God. It is also understood that some of the same also believe that if one habitually practices sin that they have never been saved. I have asked before and as I recall have never received a satisfactory answer. How many sins does a person have to commit in order that it can rightfully be said of them that they are a habitual sinner and as such cannot be a believer? How often must they commit the same old sins for it to be said that they are a habitual sinner? God said in His Word that lairs will not inherit eternal life, yet it has been said on this list that all believers are liars. Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


The issue of fornication, adultery, etc are also on the list. Jesus said that to marry one that has been put away is paramount to adultery. If one continues to cohabitate with one that Jesus said was adultery to enter into a relationship with, would that be a habitual sin? If not why not?

 

[Amy.G]

So, your church would bring someone up before the church for not visiting the sick, or not giving to the poor??? Honestly?

Amy; not to be rude, but I just can't imagine your church dealing with someone who failed to go to the nursing home, the same as someone who killed the Pastor.

BBob,

No, I'm not saying that my church would treat them same. I'm saying that both are sins. Sin is such an affront to God, that even the smallest sin, even a thought, is enough to disqualify us from heaven. That's why God in His mercy, gave us a Savior.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: Sin is such an affront to God, that even the smallest sin, even a thought, is enough to disqualify us from heaven. That's why God in His mercy, gave us a Savior.

HP: That sounds more like fire insurance to me than being saved to the uttermost. I almost hear her saying, God knows we will never quit the sin business so He has resorted to selling insurance to atone for the sins of the elect.

Much of this discussion surrounds the definition of sin. I cannot but help see a vivid picture in my mind. I see God writing on the tablets of stone the commandments, while men surrounding Him start throwing dirt up in the air, calling sin everything and anything sin, to the end that the real object of sin is efectively obscured.

Who said a mere thought is sin?? I am certain under certain conditions and with certain formed intents a thought can indeed be sin, but Amy has not so qualified her statement. I ask her again, who said a mere thought is sin??

 

[Amy.G]

HP: That sounds more like fire insurance to me than being saved to the uttermost. I almost hear her saying, God knows we will never quit the sin business so He has resorted to selling insurance to atone for the sins of the elect.

Much of this discussion surrounds the definition of sin. I cannot but help see a vivid picture in my mind. I see God writing on the tablets of stone the commandments, while men surrounding Him start throwing dirt up in the air, calling sin everything and anything sin, to the end that the real object of sin is efectively obscured.

Who said a mere thought is sin?? I am certain under certain conditions and with certain formed intents a thought can indeed be sin, but Amy has not so qualified her statement. I ask her again, who said a mere thought is sin??

Do you think that is impossible to sin in your thoughts? All your thoughts and desires come from the heart.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: Do you think that is impossible to sin in your thoughts? All your thoughts and desires come from the heart.

HP: Desire can be nothing more than the impulses of the sensibilities. James informs us clearly that sin is not formed then, but rather when the will forms intent in agreement with those selfish impulses.

The answer to your question would be absolutely not, but neither are all thoughts sinful. Sin is the results of the will forming intents in agreement with influences upon it, not the influences themselves.

 

[Amy.G]

HP: That sounds more like fire insurance to me than being saved to the uttermost. I almost hear her saying, God knows we will never quit the sin business so He has resorted to selling insurance to atone for the sins of the elect.

Much of this discussion surrounds the definition of sin. I cannot but help see a vivid picture in my mind. I see God writing on the tablets of stone the commandments, while men surrounding Him start throwing dirt up in the air, calling sin everything and anything sin, to the end that the real object of sin is efectively obscured.

Who said a mere thought is sin?? I am certain under certain conditions and with certain formed intents a thought can indeed be sin, but Amy has not so qualified her statement. I ask her again, who said a mere thought is sin??

Mat 9:4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: I just can't imagine your church dealing with someone who failed to go to the nursing home, the same as someone who killed the Pastor.

HP: I tell you what I cannot imagine for a minute, and that is a lot of professing Christians I have listened to judging in the world to come as Scripture states the saints will.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: Mat 9:4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

HP: How does this prove that thoughts are sin? I know full well that when they proceed out of the heart with formed intents to commit the things mentioned here they are, but that was not your point. You need to distinguish between thoughts that may in fact be mere temptation and thoughts that have grown into sin.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

 

[Amy.G]

HP: How does this prove that thoughts are sin? I know full well that when they proceed out of the heart with formed intents to commit the things mentioned here they are, but that was not your point. You need to distinguish between thoughts that may in fact be mere temptation and thoughts that have grown into sin.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

What I said was that we can sin in our thoughts and even that sin will disqualify you from heaven if you do not have the Savior. Are you going to disagree with Jesus? Are you so righteous that you have never sinned in your thoughts?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: What I said was that we can sin in our thoughts and even that sin will disqualify you from heaven if you do not have the Savior.

HP: So if you have the Savoir, the same old sins have no impact on your eternal life? What would disqualify one from eternal life is now done in the lives of the believers with impunity??

Amy: Are you going to disagree with Jesus?

HP: No, I have not disagreed with Jesus in any way.

Amy: Are you so righteous that you have never sinned in your thoughts?

HP: If anyone sins, it starts with the formation of intents within the heart of man which obviously involve thoughts. I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to sin apart from thoughts being involved on some level.

All have sinned Amy. Why would you seem to be suggesting by your question that I would or might exclude myself? I suppose I could ask if you are still so unrighteous that you continue to sin in your thoughts………..but I will not. We are debating issues not personal lives. God will do a great job of judging our lives and our thoughts. :thumbs:

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[Amy.G]

HP: So if you have the Savoir, the same old sins have no impact on your eternal life? What would disqualify one from eternal life is now done in the lives of the believers with impunity??




HP: If anyone sins, it starts with the formation of intents within the heart of man which obviously involve thoughts. I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to sin apart from thoughts being involved on some level.

All have sinned Amy. Why would you seem to be suggesting by your question that I would or might exclude myself? I suppose I could ask if you are still so unrighteous that you continue to sin in your thoughts………..but I will not. We are debating issues not personal lives. God will do a great job of judging our lives and our thoughts. :thumbs:

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

The question is "do Christians sin"?

I say they do.

What do you say?