Can a Christian sin?

[Brother Bob]

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
There is not a just man upon earth who knows to do good, and doeth it not.
There is none righteousness; no not one.
All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

We are sinners Bob. We sin, every day. (That sir; is "habitual").
Is it possible to "bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" every moment of every day?
Is it possible not to speak a single "idle word" in a day?
Not even a just man who knows to do good, can keep doing it.

It is a fact of life. We sin. We can't help it. We have a sin nature. And if your truthful about it you enjoy your sin. (gluttony, coveting, laziness, etc.) (I weigh 179 lbs, how much you weigh? I work harder than anyone I know most of the time, my family begs me to slow down, what about you? I have been blessed to have about anything I want in life, so I don't have to covet, what about you?) You falsely accuse, which is lying, so I see you do lie, and you have done it over and over about me, so I see it is "habitual".

The Bible states that all men are liars. Bible does not say that, unless you say different than God does.
I believe the word "liars" as used in Rev.21:8 is referring to those who live a lifestyle of habitually lying. It is a life-style with them, without ever any remorse or repentance for what they are doing. So also with the other sins that are mentioned in that verse. A person who commits one of those sins one time will not end up in the LoF because of it, unless they are unsaved. Even then one goes to the lake of fire, because they are unsaved, not because they are a liar. (Bible says because they are liars, who gave you permission to change it?)

A Christian is one who has trusted Christ, and the Holy Spirit dwells within Him, changing him day by day. I have never said that a Christian can be a habitual adulterer. You falsely misrepresent me. In fact this is exactly what IJohn 3:9 is speaking about--habitual sinners or lifestyles. (You have said it by saying all men are liars and if guilty in one point, then guilty in all)

The 10 3/4 was rather tongue-in-cheek Bob. I was hoping you would catch that. I am trusting that you have observed human nature long enough to answer this question on your own. Who has a habitual lifestyle of sin, and who does not? Who is genuinely trying to change, and who is not? Who is pretending to be a Christian and who is not? If you sin every day of your life and over and over lying, that is "habitual".
I believe the "steps of a good man, are ordered of the Lord", and Christians are Christlike, not habitual sinners as you believe.
BBob,

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Bob. (You are saying it and don't know it)
You are suggesting that Christians are perfect--entire sanctification. (never)
I never suggested that sinners are habitual sinners. (I think you mean Christians here, but yet you say we sin all the time)
If you had read the link that I gave you, it says the exact opposite. Why don't you read the information I give you instead of lying about me.[/quote] (I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)

There are others who read your remarks of men being liars, so don't call me a liar, when you in fact did say it.

You are the one who continues to say "we are sinners" over and over, That is "habitual". You can't have it both ways, either we are "habitual" sinners and sin everyday, or we are not habitual sinners, but just slip up from time to time and commit a sin, that is not unto death.

You with your doctrine have boxed yourself in a corner to which there is not escape.

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

I think there is a difference between sinning every day and living a lifestyle of sin (DHK mentioned this as well). When a believer sins, he/she is convicted, repents, asks forgiveness.

Someone living a sinful lifestyle sins without even realizing it, or if the person knows it's considered sin, they don't care. This is how I was for the most part before being saved. I would do things I knew might be considered wrong, but I rationalized them and did them anyway. I didn't care if it was wrong. I had my own set of standards and ethics. I did things I would not do now.

If I sin now, like I do every day - even being rude to someone at the store, for example, - I feel terrible afterwards! Sometimes I even apologize to the person. If pride prevents me doing that, I go home and feel worse because now I am too proud to apologize on top of being rude! I confess and ask forgiveness. I was not like this before being saved.

A believer recognizes sin, repents, and confesses.

I do think believers can fall into sin and be convicted but ignore it out of rebellion or pride. Eventually, God usually breaks them.

I keep going back to this (or maybe that's on another thread), but 2 Cor. talks about believers who were taken home due to their sin of abusing the Lord's Supper. They were basically having orgies! And they were believers!

 

[Brother Bob]

I think there is a difference between sinning every day and living a lifestyle of sin (DHK mentioned this as well). When a believer sins, he/she is convicted, repents, asks forgiveness.

You mean, to sin every day, is not habitual?

Someone living a sinful lifestyle sins without even realizing it, or if the person knows it's considered sin, they don't care. This is how I was for the most part before being saved. I would do things I knew might be considered wrong, but I rationalized them and did them anyway. I didn't care if it was wrong. I had my own set of standards and ethics. I did things I would not do now.

DHK; says, you can't help but do them now.

If I sin now, like I do every day - even being rude to someone at the store, for example, - I feel terrible afterwards! Sometimes I even apologize to the person. If pride prevents me doing that, I go home and feel worse because now I am too proud to apologize on top of being rude! I confess and ask forgiveness. I was not like this before being saved.

Do you ever do it again the next day? or is that the end of ever being rude?

A believer recognizes sin, repents, and confesses.

Does he/she do it again the next day??

I do think believers can fall into sin and be convicted but ignore it out of rebellion or pride. Eventually, God usually breaks them.

I keep going back to this (or maybe that's on another thread), but 2 Cor. talks about believers who were taken home due to their sin of abusing the Lord's Supper. They were basically having orgies! And they were believers!

Where in the world do you get they were having orgies?? That is a new one on me Marcia:.

If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death. We all are going to die naturally anyway. If to die in the Lord is gain, then how can quicken one's natural death be punishment Marcia? Or would it be to keep a Christian from committing a sin unto death? Second death.


Why would sinning every day, not be habitual? Its usually the same sin also. You know that. What would be "habitual" by your definition??

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Why would sinning every day, not be habitual? Its usually the same sin also. You know that. What would be "habitual" by your definition??

BBob,

Habitually denying what the Bible teaches about sin?

 

[DHK]

Where in the world do you get they were having orgies?? That is a new one on me Marcia:.

If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death.
BBob,

So, if David had a heart attack before Nathan got to him, he would be in Hell today, right?

 

[steaver]

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

HP: First this verse is simply speaking in common parlance, and is not establishing any absolute impossibility to sin. It uses the word ‘cannot’ in the same sense as I might use it in saying "I cannot do the things I used to." It is not that it is an impossibility for me to do as I once did, but rather my will is fixed on obedient behavior inconsistent with those old habits and places I used to do and go into.

Scripture is a book written in common parlance for the most part. One must exercise caution in their interpretation of verses such as the one in question, lest ‘absolutes,’ such as might be mistakenly placed upon words such as ‘cannot,’ land one in a theological pickle of ones own making.

The least that can be said of this verse is that the believer should sin so little that it can rightfully be said of him that he does not sin.

Thank you!

The core of all this debate has been on the interpretation of this word "cannot" in this verse. BBob's theology lives or dies on this being an absolute statement that a Christian could never transgress the law, not once, no possibility. If for one moment "cannot" should mean as you say it does to BBob, then this debate goes to rest (as it should).

Good input. :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

BBob: (Bible says because they are liars, who gave you permission to change it?)

Now BBob, wasn't it you who changed Paul's question "Dare you?" to a statement of "I dare you" adding the "I" and dropping the "?" mark to make it fit into your theology?

Come on now brother! Who gave you permission to do that?

 

[steaver]

Mat 25:44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

BBob, you said that these "died in that condition". Doesn't make sense to me. You said that not visiting the sick is NOT sin unto death. What does the passage say these folks did to receive everlasting punishment?

 

[Brother Bob]

Now BBob, wasn't it you who changed Paul's question "Dare you?" to a statement of "I dare you" adding the "I" and dropping the "?" mark to make it fit into your theology?

Come on now brother! Who gave you permission to do that?

You tell false when you say I added it to scripture. I added it to you saying to your wife "I dare". Go back and read and then apologize.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank you!

The core of all this debate has been on the interpretation of this word "cannot" in this verse. BBob's theology lives or dies on this being an absolute statement that a Christian could never transgress the law, not once, no possibility. If for one moment "cannot" should mean as you say it does to BBob, then this debate goes to rest (as it should).

Good input. :thumbs:

Well, now you are free to go and commit adultery again. Jesus should not of put absolutes in scripture. Now He has been straightened out and Christians are free to commit any sin they want, as long as they don't go too far, which no one really seems to know where that is. I will stand alone, if that is what it takes. I guess "Christlike" does not mean what it says either. Wonder how many other words in scripture that does not mean what they say??

How many times did Judas have to "betray" the Lord??

How many times did the rich man have to turn lazarus away from his table?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Mat 25:44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

BBob, you said that these "died in that condition". Doesn't make sense to me. You said that not visiting the sick is NOT sin unto death. What does the passage say these folks did to receive everlasting punishment?

Visiting not the sick because of laziness, but being condemned over it and just plain not caring about the sick ever, Is completely two different things. I doubt if you can see that though.

Mat 25:36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

How many times are you allowed to commit these actions before becoming one of them??? When does it become "habitual"?

According to your theology, if you did not visit the sick yesterday, you are hell bound, but if you committed adultery, then thats ok, as long as its not "habitual".

Great doctrine.


BBob,

 

[Marcia]

Where in the world do you get they were having orgies?? That is a new one on me Marcia:.

If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death. We all are going to die naturally anyway. If to die in the Lord is gain, then how can quicken one's natural death be punishment Marcia? Or would it be to keep a Christian from committing a sin unto death? Second death.


Why would sinning every day, not be habitual? Its usually the same sin also. You know that. What would be "habitual" by your definition??

BBob,

You asked me if sinning every day is "habitual" but I have not been using that word. I speak merely of sinning, which every Christian does every day.

I spoke of "practicing sin" and then I defined that in my post as a lifestyle, or sinning with no repentance. So I am not using the phrase "habitual sin" as I think it's muddy.

Am I ever rude again? Unfortunately, yes, but I find I am doing it less and less as time goes on. However, sometimes I want to be rude or start to be rude and stop myself. This is quite a big deal as when I was a new believer, I would be rude with no forethought. In other words, I see a pattern of gradually getting away from it.

This does not include how differently I feel toward people. I felt hatred before I was believer but do not feel hate for anyone now.

My understanding is that the strong rebuke to believers as to how they were abusing the Lord's supper was like an orgy- maybe not a sexual one but a food orgy.

I do not think a believer has the 2nd death, period. One would only believe this if they were Roman Catholic or thought one could lose their salvation.

Brother Bob, are you part of the Holinesss camp (Wesleyan, etc.)? Because that is what it sounds like. The Holiness branches believe that a believer can get to the point of not sinning in this life. If this is what you believe, please tell us.

 

[steaver]

You tell false when you say I added it to scripture. I added it to you saying to your wife "I dare". Go back and read and then apologize.

BBob,

Yes, you added it to the wife scenario as well to show me how dumb it would sound if she already bought the car. Your example was to support your view of the verse in question. The "I" sounds dumb and is incorrect grammer for a question both in your example and in the word of God because it is a QUESTION!

Originally posted in the "Can a dead body sin" thread post #255....

The part I do understand is Paul saying "I dare any of you to take his brother to court".

Read em and weep!

BBob,

Do you see your very words BBob? (This is a question, if I say "I do see your very words BBob" I must drop the "?" mark because it then becomes a statement)

Here is the actual quote from Paul...

1Cr 6:1¶ "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?"

You added an "I" and dropped the "?" mark.

Would I dare my wife to go out and buy a car that she had already bought? NO, that would be stupid.

I might say "Dare you buy a car when you knew I was against it?"

The question mark declares the deed has already been done. The only word you can properly add if you wish to add any, but it is not necessary, is "How" dare you? You dropped the question mark, added an I to the beginning and PRESTO! your view now makes perfect sense!

I speak no falsehood brother. In fact I showed you this before and you totally ignored it. You don't care what Paul actually said, your view must stand even if you stand alone!

 

[DHK]

So, if David had a heart attack before Nathan got to him, he would be in Hell today, right?

Your statement Bob:
"If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death.
BBob,"
So I ask you again:
If David had a heart attack before Nathan reached him would he be in hell today, according to your beliefs?

 

[DHK]

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Bob. (You are saying it and don't know it)

Bob, the continual misrepresentation of a person's post or words that he has posted is not only deceitful, it, in and of itself is lying. Thus every day you come on this board and you lie. That in and of itself makes you a liar. Your "putting words in my mouth" without documentation, without quotes, without evidence, is lying. Your only response is: "you are saying it and don't know it." That is unacceptable. Don't lie about what I said. If you think I have said something wrong then the onus is on you to prove it, otherwise you have lied in posting it. You do this on a daily basis. You lie on a daily basis.

You are suggesting that Christians are perfect--entire sanctification. (never)

Yes, If your position is not entire sanctification, it is very close to it.

I never suggested that sinners are habitual sinners. (I think you mean Christians here, but yet you say we sin all the time)

Your right; that was a typo (a big one). I did mean Christians. And Christians do sin every day.

If you had read the link that I gave you, it says the exact opposite. Why don't you read the information I give you instead of lying about me.

(I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)
He didn't change any meanings. He gave the correct meanings of the verbs. The KJV cannot be so wordy as to translate "cannot sin" to "cannot continually live a habitual lifestyle of sin," in other words, they cannot give the actual sense of the Greek phrase in a couple words. It is our duty to "study to show ourselves approved unto God," and find out what those phrases mean. Jesus said: "Search the Scriptures." He meant it. It is a lame excuse to say: He change the meanings..." when he only clarified them.

There are others who read your remarks of men being liars, so don't call me a liar, when you in fact did say it.

It is not me that calls you a liar; it is the Bible. Romans 3:4
"Let God be true; but every man a liar."
Every man (including you) is a liar. That is Biblical truth.

You are the one who continues to say "we are sinners" over and over, That is "habitual". You can't have it both ways, either we are "habitual" sinners and sin everyday, or we are not habitual sinners, but just slip up from time to time and commit a sin, that is not unto death.

1. It is true, we are all sinners. We sin every day. I have demonstrated this through Scripture which you have conveniently ignored.
2. That doesn't make one a habitual sinner, in that a Christian does not live in one particular lifestyle of sin. A Christian may commit the sin of adultery. But if he lives in that lifestyle, never repenting of it, and keeps doing it over and over, that is what the teaching of 1John 3:8,9 is, when it says: one who is born again cannot sin--does not live a habitual life of sin--such as I just described. It does not eliminate sin altogether.
3. You have a wrong view of a "sin unto death." Only God knows what a sin unto death is. You do not. It may be something as simple as a lie, as was in the case of Annanias and Sapphira. But you have lied many times. So think seriously about that. It is God that decides what a sin unto death is; not man.

 

[Brother Bob]

You asked me if sinning every day is "habitual" but I have not been using that word. I speak merely of sinning, which every Christian does every day.

I spoke of "practicing sin" and then I defined that in my post as a lifestyle, or sinning with no repentance. So I am not using the phrase "habitual sin" as I think it's muddy.

Am I ever rude again? Unfortunately, yes, but I find I am doing it less and less as time goes on. However, sometimes I want to be rude or start to be rude and stop myself. This is quite a big deal as when I was a new believer, I would be rude with no forethought. In other words, I see a pattern of gradually getting away from it.

This does not include how differently I feel toward people. I felt hatred before I was believer but do not feel hate for anyone now.

My understanding is that the strong rebuke to believers as to how they were abusing the Lord's supper was like an orgy- maybe not a sexual one but a food orgy.

I do not think a believer has the 2nd death, period. One would only believe this if they were Roman Catholic or thought one could lose their salvation.

Brother Bob, are you part of the Holinesss camp (Wesleyan, etc.)? Because that is what it sounds like. The Holiness branches believe that a believer can get to the point of not sinning in this life. If this is what you believe, please tell us.

No, I do not believe Christians commit sins that will keep them out of Heaven, as the world does. I believe a Christian has a different walk than the world and lives a different life style. Certainly not adultery, murder etc. I just believe Christians are a different people from the world and do not go back to that life style.

Marcia; as a Christian, do you believe and live by the following?? Please read closely Marcia, you seem to be a good Christian to me and an honest woman.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 ¶ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, you added it to the wife scenario as well to show me how dumb it would sound if she already bought the car. Your example was to support your view of the verse in question. The "I" sounds dumb and is incorrect grammer for a question both in your example and in the word of God because it is a QUESTION!



Do you see your very words BBob? (This is a question, if I say "I do see your very words BBob" I must drop the "?" mark because it then becomes a statement)

Here is the actual quote from Paul...

1Cr 6:1¶ "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?"

You added an "I" and dropped the "?" mark.

Would I dare my wife to go out and buy a car that she had already bought? NO, that would be stupid.

I might say "Dare you buy a car when you knew I was against it?"

The question mark declares the deed has already been done. The only word you can properly add if you wish to add any, but it is not necessary, is "How" dare you? You dropped the question mark, added an I to the beginning and PRESTO! your view now makes perfect sense!

I speak no falsehood brother. In fact I showed you this before and you totally ignored it. You don't care what Paul actually said, your view must stand even if you stand alone!

It is false because you keep saying I added it to scripture and dropped the ? from scripture, which is absolutely false.

Why keep adding to your falsehood??


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, the continual misrepresentation of a person's post or words that he has posted is not only deceitful, it, in and of itself is lying. Thus every day you come on this board and you lie. That in and of itself makes you a liar. Your "putting words in my mouth" without documentation, without quotes, without evidence, is lying. Your only response is: "you are saying it and don't know it." That is unacceptable. Don't lie about what I said. If you think I have said something wrong then the onus is on you to prove it, otherwise you have lied in posting it. You do this on a daily basis. You lie on a daily basis.

Yes, If your position is not entire sanctification, it is very close to it.
[/color]
Your right; that was a typo (a big one). I did mean Christians. And Christians do sin every day.
(I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)
He didn't change any meanings. He gave the correct meanings of the verbs. The KJV cannot be so wordy as to translate "cannot sin" to "cannot continually live a habitual lifestyle of sin," in other words, they cannot give the actual sense of the Greek phrase in a couple words. It is our duty to "study to show ourselves approved unto God," and find out what those phrases mean. Jesus said: "Search the Scriptures." He meant it. It is a lame excuse to say: He change the meanings..." when he only clarified them.

It is not me that calls you a liar; it is the Bible. Romans 3:4
"Let God be true; but every man a liar."
Every man (including you) is a liar. That is Biblical truth.

1. It is true, we are all sinners. We sin every day. I have demonstrated this through Scripture which you have conveniently ignored.
2. That doesn't make one a habitual sinner, in that a Christian does not live in one particular lifestyle of sin. A Christian may commit the sin of adultery. But if he lives in that lifestyle, never repenting of it, and keeps doing it over and over, that is what the teaching of 1John 3:8,9 is, when it says: one who is born again cannot sin--does not live a habitual life of sin--such as I just described. It does not eliminate sin altogether.
3. You have a wrong view of a "sin unto death." Only God knows what a sin unto death is. You do not. It may be something as simple as a lie, as was in the case of Annanias and Sapphira. But you have lied many times. So think seriously about that. It is God that decides what a sin unto death is; not man.

I know, but you are not sure how many times a Christian can keep committing adultery.

If I smoke everyday, it is a habit.

If i sin everyday, it is a habit.

Bbob,

 

[DHK]

I know, but you are not sure how many times a Christian can keep committing adultery.

The "count" is not what matters. The lifestyle matters. Does a person live a lifestyle of adultery not caring about what Christ thinks, about what the church community thinks? Is he slandering the name of Christ in doing so? Was he ever saved in the first place if there is no sign of repentance, no evidence of salvation or a changed life. The evidence of a true believer is a changed life. Committing one sin is not evidence of a changed life. Committing the same sin over and over again, or living in that wicked lifestyle without any change is evidence that his life has not changed. It is habitual--like the world, an indication that he never was saved in the first place.

If I smoke everyday, it is a habit.

Many new Christians struggle with addictions. We have a program that helps them overcome addictions. If there is not attempt to overcome addictions it is an evidence that perhaps the believer is not saved. If the believer never wanted to give up cocaine, would he be a believer? A true believer would want to give up addictions.
"All things are lawful unto me. But all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me; But I will not be brought under the power of any."
"I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me."

If i sin everyday, it is a habit.

Not true. We have a sin nature. We are not Jesus Christ, the perfect sinless Son of God. Only He is sinless. Only He is perfect. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we sin every day, it doesn't mean it is habitual. It may be different sins every day. But lying is common, along with temper, coveting, and many other sins that we don't even realize including our thought life.
Sins of omission are some of the most common--the time we spend with God in prayer, in the Word, in witnessing, in fellowship with other believers.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
--There is a definition of pure religion. Do we do that every day?
--Sins of omission are very common.

 

[Marcia]

No, I do not believe Christians commit sins that will keep them out of Heaven, as the world does. I believe a Christian has a different walk than the world and lives a different life style. Certainly not adultery, murder etc. I just believe Christians are a different people from the world and do not go back to that life style.

Marcia; as a Christian, do you believe and live by the following?? Please read closely Marcia, you seem to be a good Christian to me and an honest woman.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 ¶ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

BBob,

Yes, I believe these and I attempt to live by them by the power of the Holy Spirit. But since I am not perfect, I do fail, so I do sin.

What should be seen with a believer, which is not seen with an unbeliever, is a pattern of less sinning, more conviction when sinning (which only the person can "see"), avoidance of places or situations that are likely to lead to sin or are promoting sin, and confession and repentance of sin.

We do not become perfect the moment we are saved. We are justified and made new, absolutely. But our fallen nature is still there and we struggle with that. However, salvation frees us from the bondage to sin, which means we do have the power to resist sin whereas we did not before. But this does not mean we never sin again.