can A Chrsitian Attain Sinless perfection before they Die?

[agedman]

That is because I cannot believe you are serious.

About suicide being a sin?

About the examples I gave where life was purposely given?

About Christ having all authority over life and death and no one can commit suicide without out His approval?

 

[seekingthetruth]

OK, suppose (for you reformers here) that a person is born "predestined" to be saved, but he has not yet come to the Lord by the time of the rapture?

Does he go to heaven because he is "predestined"?

Or does he go to Hell because he has not been saved yet?

John

Or, do you Calvinists think that ALL that are predestined will be saved by the time of the rapture?

Us regular Christians want to know.

John

 

[agedman]

OK, suppose (for you reformers here) that a person is born "predestined" to be saved, but he has not yet come to the Lord by the time of the rapture?

Does he go to heaven because he is "predestined"?

Or does he go to Hell because he has not been saved yet?

John

When the Father says it is time, it is time.

The Son does not choose when the time is to come.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."​

 

[seekingthetruth]

What if a "predestined" person gets hit by a bus and killed on the way to get saved?

John

 

[agedman]

Or, do you Calvinists think that ALL that are predestined will be saved by the time of the rapture?

Us regular Christians want to know.

John

What do you mean by a "regular Christian?"

 

[seekingthetruth]

When the Father says it is time, it is time.

The Son does not choose when the time is to come.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."​

You avoided the question, as most Calvinists do.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

What do you mean by a "regular Christian?"

I am just a regular Christian, not a special "pre-chosen, predestined one" one like the Cals. I had to study the Bible, and listen to the HS, and decide to give my life to the Lord.....He didnt just give it to by birth like He did you special brothers.

John

 

[agedman]

You avoided the question, as most Calvinists do.

John

No, I think it is the best answer.

If the sovereign of all states that it is time to get the bride, then it is time.

Circumstances and what ifs don't matter.

It is applicable whether one holds to Calvinistic thinking or not.

 

[freeatlast]

About suicide being a sin?

About the examples I gave where life was purposely given?

About Christ having all authority over life and death and no one can commit suicide without out His approval?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[seekingthetruth]

No, I think it is the best answer.

If the sovereign of all states that it is time to get the bride, then it is time.

Circumstances and what ifs don't matter.

It is applicable whether one holds to Calvinistic thinking or not.

No its not. If a "predestined" person hasnt come to realise that he is "predestined" and come to the Lord by the time of the rapture, what becomes of him?

I think his rear end is left here just like any other unsaved person....but would he really be "predestined" if that happened?

John

 

[agedman]

I am just a regular Christian, not a special "pre-chosen, predestined one" one like the Cals. I had to study the Bible, and listen to the HS, and decide to give my life to the Lord.....He didnt just give it to by birth like He did you special brothers.

John

Just to make sure I understand.

I would assume that you are saying that you had the ability to accept and reject salvation?

Do you still have that ability?

That is, if you now are saved do you have the ability to reject the salvation?

 

[seekingthetruth]

About suicide being a sin?

About the examples I gave where life was purposely given?

About Christ having all authority over life and death and no one can commit suicide without out His approval?

My grandpa committed suicide in 1951, and it is still causing mental problems and pain in generations that were born many years later.

Do you really think that Christ approved of that?

John

 

[agedman]

My grandpa committed suicide in 1951, and it is still causing mental problems and pain in generations that were born many years later.

Do you really think that Christ approved of that?

John

I am not his judge.

Do you believe that Jesus claimed that He holds the keys of life and death?

 

[seekingthetruth]

Just to make sure I understand.

I would assume that you are saying that you had the ability to accept and reject salvation?

Do you still have that ability?

That is, if you now are saved do you have the ability to reject the salvation?

Absolutely not. Once a person is sealed by the HS, he is sealed for life, and cannot reject Him. What is your point?

Why do you answer questions with a question? Do you not have any answers?

John

 

[Iconoclast]

What if a "predestined" person gets hit by a bus and killed on the way to get saved?

John

What you are missing in most of your posts and questions...is that God ordains the ways and means that the elect get saved...in other words
The elect person cannot be killed by the bus until he is born from above.

His election cannot become..non election. whatever is necessary for the elect person to be saved will take place....Jesus is the Author and finisher of faith....he does not leave it to chance...there is not such thing....except as a
metaphorical expression.....
1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. ( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

God is not willing that any[of the elect} perish...that all come to repentance

the to-usward in 2 pet3:9 is speaking of those elect who have not yet come...
God is not willing that any of THEM perish.....
That is the correct use of the verse.:thumbsup:

 

[seekingthetruth]

I am not his judge.

Do you believe that Jesus claimed that He holds the keys of life and death?

yes, but I also believe that if i satnd in front of a bus that I am going to die, whether it is God's time for me or not.

Are you one of those Calvinists that thinks that EVERY thing we do is predestined? Even sin?

John

 

[agedman]

Absolutely not. Once a person is sealed by the HS, he is sealed for life, and cannot reject Him. What is your point?

Why do you answer questions with a question? Do you not have any answers?

John

So, the same God that gives you a free choice about being saved does not give you a free choice to later reject that salvation, but would hold you against your free will?

 

[seekingthetruth]

What you are missing in most of your posts and questions...is that God ordains the ways and means that the elect get saved...in other words
The elect person cannot be killed by the bus until he is born from above.

His election cannot become..non election. whatever is necessary for the elect person to be saved will take place....Jesus is the Author and finisher of faith....he does not leave it to chance...there is not such thing....except as a
metaphorical expression.....
1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. ( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

God is not willing that any[of the elect} perish...that all come to repentance

the to-usward in 2 pet3:9 is speaking of those elect who have not yet come...
God is not willing that any of THEM perish.....
That is the correct use of the verse.:thumbsup:

Blah Blah Blah....just a bunch of false doctrine to make you "elect" feel special.

Anyone (whosoever will) can come to Christ if they choose.

Your posts, and your doctrines are lies

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

So, the same God that gives you a free choice about being saved does not give you a free choice to later reject that salvation, but would hold you against your free will?

I would not come to Him unless I wanted salvation. Why would anyone reject the gift of life after recieving it?

Do you ever just answer a question with an answer instead of another question?

john

 

[Iconoclast]

yes, but I also believe that if i satnd in front of a bus that I am going to die, whether it is God's time for me or not.
Are you one of those Calvinists that thinks that EVERY thing we do is predestined? Even sin?

John

If you stand in front of the bus until you are roadkill....that is your appointed time! You cannot change it......even Hezikiahs 15 years were ordained ...as his prayer was a necessary part of it.

Everything is planned and predestined by God...Good things by the godly, wicked things by the hand of the ungodly...

whether it is God's time for me or not.

You cannot operate apart from God's eternal plan...you do not control God. God declares He will do all His good pleasure....

39See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.