Can a man sin a sin unto death after being born again.

[HankD]

Charles you said you are not a Christian?

Why are we wasting our time then since you cannot understand what we are saying?

Why are you posting here at the BB?

But to answer your question, yes, I still sin on occasion.

I do not COMMIT sin (I am not committed to sin as a way of life) in the meaning you are trying to impose upon the verse in 1st John.

You seem to have a lot of head knowledge concerning the Christian and his/her walk.

The inner man that is born of the Spirit cannot sin, but we are still here in the flesh and when we respond in the flesh we are accountable as one who has sinned.

In the Book of Revelation Jesus Himself said that His servants were committing fornication. Some try to say that it wasn't fornication but what difference does it make sin is sin.

The Christian cannot sin without consequence in the here and now, chastisement and yes even physical death.

HankD

 

[Brother Bob]

That is not what you said previous to this Bob. You said that if one was caught in adultery (for an example), had an heart attack while doing it with no chance for repentance, he would go to Hell. We have been over this issue dozens of times, and I remember your stance on this. Thus you say that these sins are not "forgiveable" if the person has not repented of them before death (even if he hasn't had the chance to repent of them)
I said if someone dies in the act of adultery, he will be lost.

I have never said that.

OTOH, you also have agreed with Charles that a born again Christian cannot commit sin, any sin. So how could these sins be forgiveable if they cannot be committed in the first place. You contradict yourself.

I never said this either.
I said there is as a sin which Christians do commit, and there is a sin unto death that Christians do not commit and if a person commits a sin of death it is an evident fact that he is not a Christian and needs to repent and be born again and become a "real" Christian.

I don't believe because a person commits one of those sins listed he is lost forever. I believe if a person commits one of those sins listed, he has to repent and be born again and become a "real" Christian.

Question to all;
1. Why do you believe that Christians can not keep from committing those sins?
2. Why do you believe that a Christian can not keep from committing adultery?

 

[Brother Bob]

Mr. M
The sin unto death is a description of the last stage of divine discipline in the life of a believer. Exampled by the varying cycles of discipline the Jews experienced, so goes the life of the believer. The Bible clearly describes the discipline reality of God in the life of a believer and the sin unto death simply describes the final stage, removal from human existence.

Seems to me this would leave them in a terrible condition if there was no repentance for what they had done, according to scripture.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Seems to me you are advocating a "fall" from Grace.

 

[charles_creech78]

Seems to me this would leave them in a terrible condition if there was no repentance for what they had done, according to scripture.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Seems to me you are advocating a "fall" from Grace.

Bob it seem to me there are some that don't want to believe that they are not born again but still sin thanking they are. I know what he means about if a man is born of God he cannot sin . You do too Bob. This is why we understand it and they don't. We no that this is a spiritual sin.

 

[DHK]

DHK A born again Christain cannot sin. This is what the bible said not me or Bob.No not just any sin a spiritual sin he cannot do.

If you don't understand what the Bible says because of the KJV, a lack of Greek knowledge, lack of study and comparison of other translations, lack of study of those scholars who know the Greek thoroughly, then you will remain in your ignorance and spout off what the Bible does not say, and there remains no help for you. But this know. The Bible is not saying what you are trying to make it to say.

 

[TCGreek]

Bob it seem to me there are some that don't want to believe that they are not born again but still sin thanking they are. I know what he means about if a man is born of God he cannot sin . You do too Bob. This is why we understand it and they don't. We no that this is a spiritual sin.

1. At one point I was part of this discussion.

2. Do you have Scripture for your positions?

 

[DHK]

I said there is as a sin which Christians do commit, and there is a sin unto death that Christians do not commit and if a person commits a sin of death it is an evident fact that he is not a Christian and needs to repent and be born again and become a "real" Christian.

I don't believe because a person commits one of those sins listed he is lost forever. I believe if a person commits one of those sins listed, he has to repent and be born again and become a "real" Christian.

Bob, for all intent and purposes, there is no difference between what I posted previously to you and what you just posted here. The result is the same. If a "Christian" is committing adultery and dies of a heart attack while doing the despicalbe act what happens to this person when he dies? According to you he goes to Hell. Why? Because according to you:
1. He has committed a sin unto death, or
2. He never was saved in the first place, because a true Christian does not sin a sin unto death.

In saying this you have set yourself up as a little god deciding what sins are sins unto death and which are not. In your list the list does not include hypocrisy. And yet that was a sin unto death for Annanias and Sapphira. In your list the list does not include abusing the Lord's Table and yet that sin was a sin unto death for the Corinthians (1Cor.11:30). So what makes you authoritative on which sins are sins unto death and which are not. You have put yourself in the position of a god.

 

[Steven2006]

"Truly, I say to you , all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphiems they utter" Mark 4:28

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

 

[EdSutton]

DHK A born again Christain cannot sin. This is what the bible said not me or Bob.No not just any sin a spiritual sin he cannot do.

Well, I guess we have that cleared up a bit. NOT!!

So let me see if I get this straight? There is "any sin", which I would assume one who is "born again" can potentially do, and there is "a spiritual sin" one who is "born again" cannot do??

Isn't that what you are saying, here?

Strange, I did not read any verse in the Bible that ever used the phrase spiritual sin, and in fact, only Rom. 7:14 (KJV and NKJV) even uses those two words in the same verse, anywhere, when Paul says.

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

But be that as it is, would you consider any of my posted 'list' of 15 categories of sins, to be "spiritual sins", and be willing to say that one who is born again could not do any of them? I am still wondering and waiting on an answer to this question.

Ed

 

[charles_creech78]

Charles you said you are not a Christian?

Why are we wasting our time then since you cannot understand what we are saying?

Why are you posting here at the BB?

But to answer your question, yes, I still sin on occasion.

I do not COMMIT sin (I am not committed to sin as a way of life) in the meaning you are trying to impose upon the verse in 1st John.

You seem to have a lot of head knowledge concerning the Christian and his/her walk.

The inner man that is born of the Spirit cannot sin, but we are still here in the flesh and when we respond in the flesh we are accountable as one who has sinned.

In the Book of Revelation Jesus Himself said that His servants were committing fornication. Some try to say that it wasn't fornication but what difference does it make sin is sin.

The Christian cannot sin without consequence in the here and now, chastisement and yes even physical death.

HankD

Yes that is what me and Bob have been saying that the inward man cannot sin. This is what he means about he that is born of God cannot sin for he can't for his seed remaneth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. Ok if they where committing fornication .Did he not say repent and do the first work. Read all of it man. Not just part of the scripture. These people was in the Church but they was not born again. Fornication is of the devil. They had sin so they are of the devil. How can you say you sin and are of God .When God said if you sin you are of the devil. You are making God a lier. Now we are talking spiritaul sin. All the things that God said shall not inherit the kingdom of God are in Galations 5:19-21 These my friend are a spiritual sin and are a death to the spirit. And as I said it so many time before he that is born of God cannot sin. I hope that you understand this . Read that scripture in Galatian . I like how he said this they which DO such things shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD. It states fornication in that chapter that if you do it you shall not inherit the kingdom of God. You said sin is all the same no It is not there is a sin unto death and there is a sin not unto death. That is in the bible and you know you have read it. If it was the same he would have said that all sin is unto death. The only sin I see is the same is what he but in Galatians that if you do any of these you shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So if fornication is one of these sins that shall not inherit and Jesus said to repent in Revelation to such that where doing them. what come after repenting. Repent believe and be baptist. He that believes on me shall never perish. Please brother don't cast me out because I am not right with God. I am seeking Him with all of my heart. I have got all of my understanding from him. Please if you do not understand what I have wrote read it again. Look up them chapters to.

 

[charles_creech78]

If you don't understand what the Bible says because of the KJV, a lack of Greek knowledge, lack of study and comparison of other translations, lack of study of those scholars who know the Greek thoroughly, then you will remain in your ignorance and spout off what the Bible does not say, and there remains no help for you. But this know. The Bible is not saying what you are trying to make it to say.

Call every man a lier and God the truth.

 

[TCGreek]

Yes that is what me and Bob have been saying that the inward man cannot sin. This is what he means about he that is born of God cannot sin for he can't for his seed remaneth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. Ok if they where committing fornication .Did he not say repent and do the first work. Read all of it man. Not just part of the scripture. These people was in the Church but they was not born again. Fornication is of the devil. They had sin so they are of the devil. How can you say you sin and are of God .When God said if you sin you are of the devil. You are making God a lier. Now we are talking spiritaul sin. All the things that God said shall not inherit the kingdom of God are in Galations 5:19-21 These my friend are a spiritual sin and are a death to the spirit. And as I said it so many time before he that is born of God cannot sin. I hope that you understand this . Read that scripture in Galatian . I like how he said this they which DO such things shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD. It states fornication in that chapter that if you do it you shall not inherit the kingdom of God. You said sin is all the same no It is not there is a sin unto death and there is a sin not unto death. That is in the bible and you know you have read it. If it was the same he would have said that all sin is unto death. The only sin I see is the same is what he but in Galatians that if you do any of these you shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So if fornication is one of these sins that shall not inherit and Jesus said to repent in Revelation to such that where doing them. what come after repenting. Repent believe and be baptist. He that believes on me shall never perish. Please brother don't cast me out because I am not right with God. I am seeking Him with all of my heart. I have got all of my understanding from him. Please if you do not understand what I have wrote read it again. Look up them chapters to.

1. Do you have Scriptures to show that their are spiritual sins and non spiritual sins and that the inner man doesn't sin?

2. Where are the Scriptures?

3. Which bible writer is saying these things?

 

[charles_creech78]

1. Do you have Scriptures to show that their are spiritual sins and non spiritual sins and that the inner man doesn't sin?

2. Where are the Scriptures?

3. Which bible writer is saying these things?

What do you thank he said about he that is born of God cannot sin? What is born of God? An't it the spirit that is born of God . So you your spirit cannot sin. So how are you telling me if you are born again but still sin in the spirit.:BangHead: Read all of 1 John chapter 3. What is born of God?

 

[Amy.G]

Charles, I'm still wondering what you meant when you said that you are not a Christian?

 

[TCGreek]

What do you thank he said about he that is born of God cannot sin? What is born of God? An't it the spirit that is born of God . So you your spirit cannot sin. So how are you telling me if you are born again but still sin in the spirit.:BangHead: Read all of 1 John chapter 3. What is born of God?

1. Say no more, I realize its an interpretation issue.

2. Others have already taken you up on that issue.

3. And that's good for me.

 

[DHK]

You are making God a lier. Now we are talking spiritaul sin. All the things that God said shall not inherit the kingdom of God are in Galations 5:19-21 These my friend are a spiritual sin and are a death to the spirit. And as I said it so many time before he that is born of God cannot sin. I hope that you understand this . Read that scripture in Galatian . I like how he said this they which DO such things shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD.

Let's look in verse 20, right in the middle of that passage, in a different translation and see what it has to say. Maybe it will throw some light on the passage and give you some understanding.
This is from Darby's translation"

Galatians 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strifes, jealousies, angers, contentions, disputes, schools of opinion,

This puts the verse in English that is a bit more understandable than that which was written 400 years ago.
1. The last phrase is "schools of opinion." You have an opinion different than ours and are arguing vehemently on behalf of it. Perhaps, Charles, that is a sin unto death, just as bad as fornication mentioned in verse 20. At times your posts come across as anger (also, according to you a sin unto death). They are very contentious, which you say is a sin unto death. And certainly they have caused disputes which is classified here (according to your theology) as a sin unto death. Now where does that put you?

 

[HankD]

Charles, these are quotes which you have made in previous posts.

No his word is not in me because I am not born again

.

I have told you I am not a Christain

It seems to me that you therefore would be neither Christian nor Baptist.

Several people have already answered your question.
Technically not only should you not be posting on the Baptist only forums but not on any forum on the BB because you claim not to be a Christian.

I am wondering just what is your purpose in asking this question in the OP.

Again several people have already answered trying to explain some of the grammar involved between the two languages; The language of inspiration which has a direct impact on the verses in 1 John to which you refer, Namely Koine Greek and the language of translation Elizabethan-Jacobean Period English..

All that has been engendered seems to be strife and name-calling.

HankD

 

[charles_creech78]

Let's look in verse 20, right in the middle of that passage, in a different translation and see what it has to say. Maybe it will throw some light on the passage and give you some understanding.
This is from Darby's translation"

Galatians 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strifes, jealousies, angers, contentions, disputes, schools of opinion,

This puts the verse in English that is a bit more understandable than that which was written 400 years ago.
1. The last phrase is "schools of opinion." You have an opinion different than ours and are arguing vehemently on behalf of it. Perhaps, Charles, that is a sin unto death, just as bad as fornication mentioned in verse 20. At times your posts come across as anger (also, according to you a sin unto death). They are very contentious, which you say is a sin unto death. And certainly they have caused disputes which is classified here (according to your theology) as a sin unto death. Now where does that put you?

I know that I am going to hell if I don't change and stop sinning. I just don't understand if sin is all the same to you and you sin how is it he is going to cast me into hell and let you that sin to into heaven. What is the different if they are the same? I am not mad at anyone. I just want a answer which I have not gotten yet. Do you not see the point. Let's say you fornicat and are a Christain and I fornicat and I say that I am not a Christain. Which one is going to hell? Answer this one and don't give me a run around.

 

[charles_creech78]

Charles, these are quotes which you have made in previous posts.

.


It seems to me that you therefore would be neither Christian nor Baptist.

Several people have already answered your question.
Technically not only should you not be posting on the Baptist only forums but not on any forum on the BB because you claim not to be a Christian.

I am wondering just what is your purpose in asking this question in the OP.

Again several people have already answered trying to explain some of the grammar involved between the two languages; The language of inspiration which has a direct impact on the verses in 1 John to which you refer, Namely Koine Greek and the language of translation Elizabethan-Jacobean Period English..

All that has been engendered seems to be strife and name-calling.

HankD

Hank did Jesus cast you out because you where a sinner.

 

[charles_creech78]

Charles, I'm still wondering what you meant when you said that you are not a Christian?

I am not born again. I am looking for God right know and I ask some ? on hear and all I get is the run around . They say you can sin as a Christain and sin is all the same in his eyes. Ok if it is all the same and I sin and am going to hell for my sin then how is it that sin is the same but you Christains are going to heaven but still sin the same as me. But I am going to hell and you are going to heaven.:tear: