Yes, I know you've said that, but what is the scripture(s) that supports it. You are saying there's a period of time between belief (salvation) and receiving the Holy Spirit and during this time we have trials and tribulations which can choke our belief (salvation) and thus we won't receive the Holy Spirit. Where does scripture speak of this "waiting period"?
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Can a person lose the Holy Spirit once it is received?
- Thread starter ScottF
- Start date
psalms109:31
Active Member
scripture
The disciple's had to wait till pentagost, the one'e who believed did not receive it until after paul laid His hands on them.
We have to wait on God. If trials and tribulation choke out the word of truth, then that means that it is not an instant thing.
I believed when I was elevan, it wasn't until i was 29 that the Holy Spirit was poured on me in tears crying out to God.
I read the Bible quite a few times and could never understand. I read commentaries after commentaries. Doing that time I turned away from Jesus for five years.
Doing that time a face death situation and I knew if I died at the time. I would not of been saved even thou I believed when I was eleven. I came back to Jesus
During my tears crying to God He filled me and my eyes where open. I know from my own experience, and I will never be the same.
Belief is just a seed that can be choked out.
We will receive the Holy Spirit in God's timming not our own.
We are saved by grace through faith that will endure to the end. He will not give give His Spirit out to one who will believe today and not tommorrow.
We can't lose the Holy Spirit but you cannot say one who believed once and walked away will have the Holy Spirit.
The question is not can we lose it, the question should be asked have we ever received it. Wait on God and trust in Him and you will not be disappointed
The disciple's had to wait till pentagost, the one'e who believed did not receive it until after paul laid His hands on them.
We have to wait on God. If trials and tribulation choke out the word of truth, then that means that it is not an instant thing.
I believed when I was elevan, it wasn't until i was 29 that the Holy Spirit was poured on me in tears crying out to God.
I read the Bible quite a few times and could never understand. I read commentaries after commentaries. Doing that time I turned away from Jesus for five years.
Doing that time a face death situation and I knew if I died at the time. I would not of been saved even thou I believed when I was eleven. I came back to Jesus
During my tears crying to God He filled me and my eyes where open. I know from my own experience, and I will never be the same.
Belief is just a seed that can be choked out.
We will receive the Holy Spirit in God's timming not our own.
We are saved by grace through faith that will endure to the end. He will not give give His Spirit out to one who will believe today and not tommorrow.
We can't lose the Holy Spirit but you cannot say one who believed once and walked away will have the Holy Spirit.
The question is not can we lose it, the question should be asked have we ever received it. Wait on God and trust in Him and you will not be disappointed
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Allan said:
1Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.
1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
If we don't demonstrate love for God and for our fellow human beings Christ will not abide in us. If Christ does not abide in us we are lost, unsaved. Too many people today want to believe that salvation is easy. It is not. Christ told the rich young ruler to sell everything and give it to the poor. Sadly, he wasn't willing to pay the price and he went away unsaved. Jesus told us to pick us our cross and follow Him. That means we have to follow through on our salvation experience. If we do not, we weren't born again because our lives didn't change. Christ told men to leave their families and follow Him. Easy believerism says no. He didn't really mean that. Yes He did. Most of Christ's early followers were martyred. Does that fit into current day easy believerism? Of course not.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
This talks about salvation as a walk not an event.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Allan said:
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
This passage clearly says that there is a requirement that we continue to abide in Christ, to keep His commandments. If someone does not abide in Him "he is cast forth as a branch" and burned. Burning is equivalent to being cast into Hell fire. Salvation is not an event which happened a ling time ago and barely remembered. It is a way of life.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
This passage likens salvation to a journey. We can either take it with Christ or we can take it without Him. It's our choice.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
StraightAndNarrow: //Too many people today want
to believe that salvation is easy. It is not.//
No salvation is not easy. Salvation cost God the life of His
only begotten Son. Our salvation cost Jesus His life.
Too many people today want to believe that their
salvation is transient: lasts until they mess up or
give up. Yet the most popular verse in the Bible to
the saved individual is:
John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only begotten
Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.
"Everlasting life" has no end.
Jesus saves.
We are saved by works: the PERFECT WORKS of Jesus
(not our own works).
to believe that salvation is easy. It is not.//
No salvation is not easy. Salvation cost God the life of His
only begotten Son. Our salvation cost Jesus His life.
Too many people today want to believe that their
salvation is transient: lasts until they mess up or
give up. Yet the most popular verse in the Bible to
the saved individual is:
John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only begotten
Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.
"Everlasting life" has no end.
Jesus saves.
We are saved by works: the PERFECT WORKS of Jesus
(not our own works).
IveyLeaguer
New Member
Soul & Spirit
The primary thing to understand is man does indeed have a spirit, separate and distinct from the soul. Man is, therefore, made up of a spirit, a soul (which consists of the mind, the will, and the emotions) and a physical body. When we are born again by the Spirit of God, it is our spirit which is regenerated (made alive), by God The Holy Spirit - and not our mind, will, or emotions (soul).
Second, The mind of man (and the emotions and will) are fallen and remain fallen after regeneration which is why Paul tells us to "be transformed by the renewing of our minds", to constantly ingest and wash our minds with the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is not our mind, or in our mind, nor is He in our emotions, as I heard Ed Young, Jr. say on a radio broadcast not too long ago (a ridiculous statement BTW, but logical, I suppose, if you like to mix behavioural, pop psychology into your theology).
Third, I should point out, without straying further off-topic, that regarding the function of it all, the Holy Spirit indwells and seals us at regeneration, and from that point on He (God The Holy Spirit) communicates with our spirit (that has been made alive by Him), and our regenerated spirit then impresses our fallen mind. We must learn to discern His impressions with practice. Simply put, this is one way God communicates with us, the primary one being His written Word, to which everything, especially mental impressions, is subject. Personally, I find that most often, His impressions are in the form of Holy Scripture, which He brings to my remembrance.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful to some brothers and sisters out there, though I encourage you all to test what I have said with Scripture and do whatever research may be necessary for you. In the words of one sister I know, "Our minds, no matter how pure, will never be completely reliable." Not in this life. But we can and should wash our minds daily with His Word, leaning finally on His wriiten Word and His Spirit that dwells within us.
One question I would ask, J.Jump: Is it our spirit, or the Holy Spirit within us, that wages war against the flesh? Or is it both?
:jesus:
How refreshing, J.Jump, it was to read this. This must be one of the most misunderstood areas of the Christian life, misunderstood by many outstanding theologians and exegetes, as well as many teachers who are well known, but not so outstanding.J. Jump said:
The primary thing to understand is man does indeed have a spirit, separate and distinct from the soul. Man is, therefore, made up of a spirit, a soul (which consists of the mind, the will, and the emotions) and a physical body. When we are born again by the Spirit of God, it is our spirit which is regenerated (made alive), by God The Holy Spirit - and not our mind, will, or emotions (soul).
Second, The mind of man (and the emotions and will) are fallen and remain fallen after regeneration which is why Paul tells us to "be transformed by the renewing of our minds", to constantly ingest and wash our minds with the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is not our mind, or in our mind, nor is He in our emotions, as I heard Ed Young, Jr. say on a radio broadcast not too long ago (a ridiculous statement BTW, but logical, I suppose, if you like to mix behavioural, pop psychology into your theology).
Third, I should point out, without straying further off-topic, that regarding the function of it all, the Holy Spirit indwells and seals us at regeneration, and from that point on He (God The Holy Spirit) communicates with our spirit (that has been made alive by Him), and our regenerated spirit then impresses our fallen mind. We must learn to discern His impressions with practice. Simply put, this is one way God communicates with us, the primary one being His written Word, to which everything, especially mental impressions, is subject. Personally, I find that most often, His impressions are in the form of Holy Scripture, which He brings to my remembrance.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful to some brothers and sisters out there, though I encourage you all to test what I have said with Scripture and do whatever research may be necessary for you. In the words of one sister I know, "Our minds, no matter how pure, will never be completely reliable." Not in this life. But we can and should wash our minds daily with His Word, leaning finally on His wriiten Word and His Spirit that dwells within us.
One question I would ask, J.Jump: Is it our spirit, or the Holy Spirit within us, that wages war against the flesh? Or is it both?
:jesus:
That is a great question. I think Textually it seems the Holy Spirit is the One that wars with the flesh (Galatians 5:17).
It would also seem however that when we die to self that it is the Spirit that is working through our spirit to make that a reality, and when we die to self (crucifiy the flesh) the Spirit wins and the flesh remains dead.
What do you think?
psalms109:31
Active Member
Holy Spirit
A believers doesn't die they fall asleep, and when they wake up they will be changed in a twinkle of an eye.
Believers are given eternal life, and non-believers will be condemned.
We are quarenteed eternal life if we are a believer.
We are not to be arrogant, but afraid if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare us either. So we are to stay in His kindness or likewise we will be cut out.
A believers doesn't die they fall asleep, and when they wake up they will be changed in a twinkle of an eye.
Believers are given eternal life, and non-believers will be condemned.
We are quarenteed eternal life if we are a believer.
We are not to be arrogant, but afraid if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare us either. So we are to stay in His kindness or likewise we will be cut out.
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reformedbeliever
New Member
psalms109:31 said:
Where do you get your information? I'm a medic, and I can tell you I've witnessed many believers die... and they did not fall asleep. They died biologically.
But you are comparing apples and oranges. The fall of the children of Israel that you refer to here is not related to eternal (spiritual) salvation. Their fall was related to their calling and the better of the promised land . . . the land flowing with milk and honey. They fell short of their calling just as Christians can fall short of their calling.
Calling is not related to eternal (spiritual) salvation.
When we mix messages that aren't intended to be mixed we destory both.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Scripture
The natural branches is Isreal, but we are the one's God will cut out if we do not continue in His Kindness. God not spare Isreal He will not spare us if we do not continue in His kindness.
Israel were cut out for unbelief.
Paul is refearing to the people in his letter, to not fall in the same trap as Israel did.
Jesus said that the girl that He was going to bring to life that she was not dead but asleep. Our body maybe dead but our soul is just asleep.
God is not saving the Spirit the goal of our faith is the salvation of our soul.
The natural branches is Isreal, but we are the one's God will cut out if we do not continue in His Kindness. God not spare Isreal He will not spare us if we do not continue in His kindness.
Israel were cut out for unbelief.
Paul is refearing to the people in his letter, to not fall in the same trap as Israel did.
Jesus said that the girl that He was going to bring to life that she was not dead but asleep. Our body maybe dead but our soul is just asleep.
God is not saving the Spirit the goal of our faith is the salvation of our soul.
mountainrun
New Member
J. Jump is right psalm. The passage about the branches in Romans 11 is referring to Jews and Gentiles as a whole, made clear in verses 24 and 25.
It does not refer to individual believers being cut off.
{I see you know that. You posted while I was typing. Sorry}
Also, our soul does not sleep.
It is with Jesus in heaven according to Paul's teaching.
His desire was to depart and be with Jesus.
We also see the martyrs in heaven before Him.
Rev. 7:13. Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14. I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
MR
It does not refer to individual believers being cut off.
{I see you know that. You posted while I was typing. Sorry}
Also, our soul does not sleep.
It is with Jesus in heaven according to Paul's teaching.
His desire was to depart and be with Jesus.
We also see the martyrs in heaven before Him.
Rev. 7:13. Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14. I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
MR
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StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Ed Edwards said:
I've never said that we are saved by works. We are saved by the substitionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. I'm simply saying that, as Christ said, ye must be born again. You must be willing to pay the price for following him. Without repentenance and a complete change in our lifestyle (like Nicodemus) there is no salvation. The rich young ruler understood that there's a p[rice to pay. Why can't you?
Again a mixing of messages. You can say that we are saved by the substitutionary atonement and you can con yourself into believing that, but when you type what you have typed and say that is what you believe you are expressing a works based salvation whether you want to admit it or not.
Our works NEVER enter into the equation before, during or after. They can't, becuase if one single fraction of our work mixes with what Christ has done on our behalf it is not longer grace, but wages. That's what Paul tells us I believe in Romans 4.
The rich young ruler was questioning what he must do to inherit age-lasting life. Everlasting life, which is what we receive the very moment we believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, is a gift not an inheritance. To merge the two is to try to make an applange of an apple and orange. They just don't mix.
Nicodemus was a saved man, and Jesus was explaining something beyond initial salvation.
S&N we have discussed this before, so this was more a benefit for those that are reading than to enter into another conversation to beat a dead horse
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
StraightAndNarrow: //I've never said that we are saved by works.//
Yes, you never said that.
You said:
StraightAndNarrow: //Too many people today want
to believe that salvation is easy. It is not.//
I agreed when I said:
Ed Edwards: //No salvation is not easy. Salvation cost God the life of His
only begotten Son. Our salvation cost Jesus His life.//
Then I started talking to other people when I said:
Ed Edwards: //Too many people today want to believe
that their salvation is transient: lasts until
they mess up or give up//
And now I say to other people:
If one is saved by ones works, then neither is
one lost from salvation (has the Holy Spirit withdraw from
them) by ones works.
Jesus saves then (Justification),
Jesus saves now (Scantification)
Jesus saves then (Glorification).
Yes, you never said that.
You said:
StraightAndNarrow: //Too many people today want
to believe that salvation is easy. It is not.//
I agreed when I said:
Ed Edwards: //No salvation is not easy. Salvation cost God the life of His
only begotten Son. Our salvation cost Jesus His life.//
Then I started talking to other people when I said:
Ed Edwards: //Too many people today want to believe
that their salvation is transient: lasts until
they mess up or give up//
And now I say to other people:
If one is saved by ones works, then neither is
one lost from salvation (has the Holy Spirit withdraw from
them) by ones works.
Jesus saves then (Justification),
Jesus saves now (Scantification)
Jesus saves then (Glorification).
psalms109:31
Active Member
mountainrun said:
So the great tribulation already happen. No it has not. I do believe that everything has already happened and we are just playing it all out right now.
Heaven is not subject to time, the world is.
So right now the people who have endured to the end are already in heaven.