Can a Person who doesnt believe Jesus is God, still be saved?

[Amy.G]

In that verse it is clear, but there are others where it is less clear.

Which is why we don't build doctrines on one verse alone.

 

[Martin Luther]

Simple version without quoting a lot of scripture. The Bible says we must believe in the Christ of the Bible, God's only begotten. We must believe his doctrine (teachings). Christ said that he and his father were one. If you do not believe this then you must believe one of two things.

1. He lied
2. He's nuts

I don't see how you can believe that he is savior and not God. To do so is changing scriture and the bible tells what happens to those who do. It's not really even close to being debatable.

I'm out of time, but will post more with verses

It's not about not "not believing" it, it's about being saved and not knowing that factoid, this is the question. The bible is packed with truths we should all know, how much understanding is required in order to put your faith is Christ?

 

[webdog]

I know without a doubt that Christ is God, I'm not convinced it must be known for salvation.

...then you believe in a false gospel, it's as simple as that. There aren't many paths to Heaven, there is only one. Your view would have JW's going to Heaven.

 

[Marcia]

All I am saying is one does not need perfect doctrine to be saved.

There is a difference between what one knows at salvation and what one continues to believe. In time, a believer will accept the truths of the faith.

There is also a difference between what a new believer knows and what a person or group is teaching and believing when they advocate a doctrine contrary to the Christian faith.

Therefore, this group that the OP mentions is not a case of misunderstanding or what a new believer knows or doesn't know, but a case of a non-christian cult that teaches contrary to the Christian faith and the Bible.

 

[Marcia]

TaliOrlando, the people in this group are not saved. They are willingly believing in a false doctrine that teaches another Jesus.

There are many ways to show the deity of Christ.

See my article "Who is Jesus?"
http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_Jesus.html

Also see this from the CARM site, "Jesus is God"
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisgod.htm

It's important when you explain that Jesus is God that you make it clear that Jesus is not God the Father. This gets into the Trinity issue.

Go to this page on the CARM site and scroll down to the heading on the Trinity. He has several articles and charts there.
http://www.carm.org/doctrine.htm

 

[Martin Luther]

There is a difference between what one knows at salvation and what one continues to believe. In time, a believer will accept the truths of the faith.

There is also a difference between what a new believer knows and what a person or group is teaching and believing when they advocate a doctrine contrary to the Christian faith.

Therefore, this group that the OP mentions is not a case of misunderstanding or what a new believer knows or doesn't know, but a case of a non-christian cult that teaches contrary to the Christian faith and the Bible.

And I agree with you. The question is what must be known as your saying the sinners payer, having "the faith" as it were....

 

[Marcia]

And I agree with you. The question is what must be known as your saying the sinners payer, having "the faith" as it were....

But that's not the question here. The question in the OP is about a particular group (cult -- I am somewhat familiar with them) that denies the deity of Christ and people claiming to be Christians who do not believe Jesus is God.

If you want to discuss what one must know or understand to be saved, that would be another thread. You could start it; there would probably be good discussion from that.

 

[Martin Luther]

But that's not the question here. The question in the OP is about a particular group (cult -- I am somewhat familiar with them) that denies the deity of Christ and people claiming to be Christians who do not believe Jesus is God.

If you want to discuss what one must know or understand to be saved, that would be another thread. You could start it; there would probably be good discussion from that.

I see, I guess I was rabbit chasing there, Webdog had made the point earlier that one needed to know it to be saved.

 

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

The gospel message is that which saves. This is what Paul declared to the Corinthians, and this is what is declared above in verses 3 and 4. An understanding of this message is crucial to salvation.
First Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.
Why could Christ die for our sins and not some other man?
1. Because he was perfect man.
2. Because he was God.
The God-man could pay the penalty for our sins personally, and for the sins of the world collectively--for our sins personally because he was perfect man (a sinless sacrifice), and for the sins of the world because He was God.

Second he was buried. This was the proof of his death.
Third he rose again from the dead. This was the great demonstration of his deity. No religious leader has ever accomplished this. He appeared to over 500 witnesses after his resurrection who could all verify his resurrection. He demonstrated that his claims were true.

I was Catholic for twenty years. I knew the facts about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. I knew the facts of his deity, virgin birth, second coming, and most of the orthodox doctrines of the Christian faith. I probably could have written a book on Christianity as I see it. But facts don't save. Salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It is being born again, born into his family. To do that you must not only know the facts of his death, burial and resurrection, you must know how they apply to your life. You must understand that his death, the penalty that he paid for your sin, was for you personally. There must be an adequate understanding of the gospel message. You can't have that understanding if you don't know the Jesus that rose from the dead, the Christ who is God. Salvation must be clearly understood before one can be saved.
Like I said, I could have written a book on Christianity, but I was not saved. Facts do not save. You must be born again. Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship.
Who do you have a relationship with?

 

[Martin Luther]

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

The gospel message is that which saves. This is what Paul declared to the Corinthians, and this is what is declared above in verses 3 and 4. An understanding of this message is crucial to salvation.
First Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.
Why could Christ die for our sins and not some other man?
1. Because he was perfect man.
2. Because he was God.
The God-man could pay the penalty for our sins personally, and for the sins of the world collectively--for our sins personally because he was perfect man (a sinless sacrifice), and for the sins of the world because He was God.

Second he was buried. This was the proof of his death.
Third he rose again from the dead. This was the great demonstration of his deity. No religious leader has ever accomplished this. He appeared to over 500 witnesses after his resurrection who could all verify his resurrection. He demonstrated that his claims were true.

I was Catholic for twenty years. I knew the facts about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. I knew the facts of his deity, virgin birth, second coming, and most of the orthodox doctrines of the Christian faith. I probably could have written a book on Christianity as I see it. But facts don't save. Salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It is being born again, born into his family. To do that you must not only know the facts of his death, burial and resurrection, you must know how they apply to your life. You must understand that his death, the penalty that he paid for your sin, was for you personally. There must be an adequate understanding of the gospel message. You can't have that understanding if you don't know the Jesus that rose from the dead, the Christ who is God. Salvation must be clearly understood before one can be saved.
Like I said, I could have written a book on Christianity, but I was not saved. Facts do not save. You must be born again. Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship.
Who do you have a relationship with?

As you have pointed out, salvation is more than just one two three repeat after me. I believe there is obedience involved. A running of the race that is set before you, a continuing until the end. I am not a dispensationalist, I believe Peter, Jude, and James have been written to the church. The seven churches of Asia are not seven periods of time, that being said, there is a faith to be kept, a faith to be obeyed. Salvation can start with a starry eyed five year boy, and we are told that if we have trained our children they will not stray from it, meaning they will likely keep the faith. Being born again is about being obedient, obedient to the gospel, obedient to the commands of Christ.


Romans 2:6-11 (King James Version)

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Martin-Luther..

As I was in the car thinking about this post I came to think I understood what you were saying. To accept salvation one does not need to understand the deeper truths of the Bible. I did not. I knew nothing about a Trinity or any other doctrine. I was not raised in church nor had I ever attended one. But when the Holy Spirit called, I answered. So I think I understand where you are coming from.

However, I took the OP to mean after conversion can one continue to believe Christ is not Lord? Absolutley not. John Capter 1 states the Jesus is the Word, the Light, and God. 1st John tells us that if we walk in darkness we have no fellowship with God. Contrary to most of my Baptist Brothers and Sisters, I believe this means one is lost. But I guess that is for another discussion.

(1Jo 1:6 KJV) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So the answer is no. One can not be saved and not believe the Diety of Christ.

Jesus is Lord!

 

[Martin Luther]

Martin-Luther..

As I was in the car thinking about this post I came to think I understood what you were saying. To accept salvation one does not need to understand the deeper truths of the Bible. I did not. I knew nothing about a Trinity or any other doctrine. I was not raised in church nor had I ever attended one. But when the Holy Spirit called, I answered. So I think I understand where you are coming from.

However, I took the OP to mean after conversion can one continue to believe Christ is not Lord? Absolutley not. John Capter 1 states the Jesus is the Word, the Light, and God. 1st John tells us that if we walk in darkness we have no fellowship with God. Contrary to most of my Baptist Brothers and Sisters, I believe this means one is lost. But I guess that is for another discussion.



So the answer is no. One can not be saved and not believe the Diety of Christ.

Jesus is Lord!

You understand my point correctly, and I agree with your post.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Many people are out in the world are "antichrists" - "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of an-ti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." - 1 John 4:3, many religions who do not believe Jesus is 100% God are antichrists. Therefore, no they are not saved, because they against Christ.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Spinach]

I was thinking of I John 2 wrt antichrist.

 

[Tom Butler]

I'm coming late to this thread, but here are some of my thoughts.

First, I don't want to limit God, who may save anyone he pleases at any time.

I don't remember giving much thought to the deity of Christ at the age of nine, when God saved me. It wasn't a question of whether I believed it or disbelieved it. I just don't remember ever being exposed to the idea. It was certainly not one of the questions my pastor asked me when I went to him under conviction.

If, however, such a belief is a pre-requisite to salvation, than a lot of churches are falling down on the job of teaching this to its children.

Once exposed to the doctrine, I embraced it fully, and I think most believers do.

Those religious groups who teach against the deity of Christ also teach a works salvation and a bunch of other errors (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.} If any of them are saved, it is despite their teachings. If any of them repent of their sins and trust Christ alone for their salvation, they have actually rejected and denied the teaching of their group.

So, no, a belief in Jesus' deity is not a pre-condition for salvation. But if one rejects that doctrine, it does raise questions and prompts further inquiries about their salvation.

 

[webdog]

First, I don't want to limit God, who may save anyone he pleases at any time.

God cannot go against Himself, so this is not true. He has stated who would be saved and how, and He will not save someone outside of this realm.

So, no, a belief in Jesus' deity is not a pre-condition for salvation.

The Bible disagrees with this.

 

[Martin Luther]

I'm coming late to this thread, but here are some of my thoughts.

First, I don't want to limit God, who may save anyone he pleases at any time.

I don't remember giving much thought to the deity of Christ at the age of nine, when God saved me. It wasn't a question of whether I believed it or disbelieved it. I just don't remember ever being exposed to the idea. It was certainly not one of the questions my pastor asked me when I went to him under conviction.

If, however, such a belief is a pre-requisite to salvation, than a lot of churches are falling down on the job of teaching this to its children.

Once exposed to the doctrine, I embraced it fully, and I think most believers do.

Those religious groups who teach against the deity of Christ also teach a works salvation and a bunch of other errors (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.} If any of them are saved, it is despite their teachings. If any of them repent of their sins and trust Christ alone for their salvation, they have actually rejected and denied the teaching of their group.

So, no, a belief in Jesus' deity is not a pre-condition for salvation. But if one rejects that doctrine, it does raise questions and prompts further inquiries about their salvation.

Good post.

 

[thegospelgeek]

webdog...

Are you saying that a complete understanding of the trinity is a prereq for salvation? When I was saved I did not understand the trinity, nor had I ever heard of it. I never knew that Jesus was God. I heard the Gospel that Christ had died for my sins, the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, and I knew that thru repentance and faith in Christ i could receive salvation. I knew not 1 verse of scripture. No doctrines. No understanding of any of the basic beliefs. God saved me first and then taught me. If you had asked me if Jesus was God I would have said no, that he was Jesus and God was God. Are you telling me I didn't get saved? I don't think you are, and I know that you have no way opf knowing if I am or not except thru my testamony.

But you are right saying that one can not continue in darkness.

By the way, this topic is easy to answer yet somewhat difficult to prove thru scriptures.

I used 1 John 1 and John 1. Are there other verses to support all of the no answers?

 

[Alive in Christ]

"However, can a person who believes in God, but doesnt believe that Jesus was God in the flesh still be saved?"

If they are sincere, yes...of course.

But its really a moot point, because once they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will in short order cause the new believer to understand the diety of Christ, as well as so many other foundational truths.


:godisgood:

 

[Alive in Christ]

The Gospel Geek...

"We must believe his doctrine (teachings). Christ said that he and his father were one. If you do not believe this then you must believe one of two things.

1. He lied
2. He's nuts

I don't see how you can believe that he is savior and not God. To do so is changing scriture and the bible tells what happens to those who do. It's not really even close to being debatable."

But the issue, as I understand it from the 1st post, is not what someone will ultimetly believe, but rather what is the bare bones minimum requirement to be saved.

And that would be simply placing ones faith in Jesus Christ for their eternal security.

The rest..the diety of Christ, the triune nature of God, sound christian doctrine, etc...will fall into place in due time.

However, if someone appears to place their faith in Christ, but in short order becomes a Jehovahs Witness or some other group that denies foundational truths like the diety of Christ, then there is great concern as to the legitimacy of their regeneration.


:godisgood: