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Can a professed Christian lie and bear false witness everyday ?

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In a number of threads there have been several postings containing lie's and false witness against others ...on a daily basis?

Can this be a part of any Christians life to where it is a habitual practice?

How have you dealt with professed Christians who sin in this way?

from wikipedia
The command against false testimony is seen as a natural consequence of the command to “love your neighbor as yourself.” This moral prescription flows from the command for holy people to bear witness to their deity. Offenses against the truth express by word or deed a refusal to commit oneself to moral uprightness: they are fundamental infidelities to God and, in this sense, they undermine the foundations of covenant with God.

The Hebrew Bible contains a number prohibitions of false witness, lying, spreading false reports, etc.[9] A charge was established only on the evidence of two or three witnesses.[10] In cases where false testimony was suspected, the judges were to make a thorough investigation, and if false testimony were proven, the false witness was to receive the punishment he had intended to bring on the person falsely accused.[11] For example, since murder was a capital crime, giving false testimony in a murder case was subject to the death penalty. Those eager to receive or listen to false testimony were also subject to punishment.[12]

False witness is among the six things God hates, king Solomon says.[13] False testimony is among the things that defile a person, Jesus says. [14]
:wavey:
 

T Alan

New Member
lol, this sounds kinda similar to "questioning the salvation" of "some people" which I understand is a damnable (sorry blackbird) position to take.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Professing Christians and genuine Christians can and do engage in all sorts of un-Christlike behavior. The difference is indwelling Holy Spirit.

How long genuine Christians can engage in such conduct and withstand the conviction of the grieving, indwelling Holy Spirit is between them and God.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Professing Christians and genuine Christians can and do engage in all sorts of un-Christlike behavior. The difference is indwelling Holy Spirit.

How long genuine Christians can engage in such conduct and withstand the conviction of the grieving, indwelling Holy Spirit is between them and God.

That is the issue. Can a person continue to do this behavior and not be disciplined by God? :thumbsup:
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
lol, this sounds kinda similar to "questioning the salvation" of "some people" which I understand is a damnable (sorry blackbird) position to take.

It actually deals with Rom 6:1-2
shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

perhaps some translations say...yes..by all means?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
lol, this sounds kinda similar to "questioning the salvation" of "some people" which I understand is a damnable (sorry blackbird) position to take.

If you observe any person anywhere doing this...do you feel you are responsible to raise this issue for the good of their soul,and the purity of gospel conduct.


Can this in anyway be acceptable or to be countenanced?
 

T Alan

New Member
That is the issue. Can a person continue to do this behavior and not be disciplined by God? :thumbsup:

As I said, gets into actual "redemption" verses "counterfeit". He will at some point chastise His. Look at folks like Hinn, O'steen, Oral Roberts.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
That is the issue. Can a person continue to do this behavior and not be disciplined by God? :thumbsup:
God disciplines those He loves. Thank God He doesn't leave us to do as we see fit in our own minds.

The next question might be how long will God endure a Christian in rebellion? Certainly not the same for every Christian, is it? Is this the "sin that leads to death", that is any unrepentant sin by a Christian that results in God bringing them home so as not to commit further rebellion?

Many questions here that are beyond our sight, I think. The most we can do, IMHO, is to follow church discipline as explain by Jesus and to treat those who are professed Christians, but remain is sinful rebellion, as if they are unbelievers with the motive of restoring their relationship first with God and then with other believers.
 

T Alan

New Member
If you observe any person anywhere doing this...do you feel you are responsible to raise this issue for the good of their soul,and the purity of gospel conduct.


Can this in anyway be acceptable or to be countenanced?

Well, some round here say I'm a legalist. So my opinion my not be valid.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God disciplines those He loves. Thank God He doesn't leave us to do as we see fit in our own minds.

The next question might be how long will God endure a Christian in rebellion? Certainly not the same for every Christian, is it? Is this the "sin that leads to death", that is any unrepentant sin by a Christian that results in God bringing them home so as not to commit further rebellion?

Many questions here that are beyond our sight, I think. The most we can do, IMHO, is to follow church discipline as explain by Jesus and to treat those who are professed Christians, but remain is sinful rebellion, as if they are unbelievers with the motive of restoring their relationship first with God and then with other believers.

Good imput cyd


:thumbsup:




































...
 

righteousdude2

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In a number of threads there have been several postings containing lie's and false witness against others ...on a daily basis?

Can this be a part of any Christians life to where it is a habitual practice?

How have you dealt with professed Christians who sin in this way?

from wikipedia


:wavey:

I'll bite .....

In a way, I have tried to bring this kind of behavior up, with little success, so I pray your OP has some success!

There is way to much of what you say, going on, in fact, over the past few years, things have gotten much worse.

I don't see how believers can be following Him by purposely trying to demean others. Insult others. Bear false witness against other. Share Gossip about others. Swear and cuss. Gang up on others with the intent to humiliate another person (I call it cyber bullying). Mock another, and even bring up past comments, but before they post in comment's section the edit it to read as they want it to read to bring more shame to the person, knowing this will lead to that person protecting themselves and responding, which is what they hoped for so they can further humiliate the person! Referring to a person's AGE and insulting them because they may be old or may have a disability. Inferring mental problems and poking fun at them! Correcting ones spelling and grammar with the purpose of humiliating them by, in my case, pointing ut that I am "supposed to be an author" subtly suggesting that I am in fact not an author, or they'd not have to correct my spelling or grammar! :tear:

All of this is petty, but it is intentionally done to PROVOKE the other parties, and what is a shame, it works, and things digress and regress from there into a slinging mud fest! :tear:

You are on to something, ICON, and I sure hope you can bring some folks under conviction, but I wouldn't look for it! Still I can hope!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
lol, this sounds kinda similar to "questioning the salvation" of "some people" which I understand is a damnable (sorry blackbird) position to take.

I agree.....because how do you know who the genuine Christian is? Does God reveal him by having anyone glance at the Lambs Book of Life?
 

plain_n_simple

Active Member
"Can a professed Christian lie and bear false witness everyday ?"
Yes
"In a number of threads there have been several postings containing lie's and false witness against others ...on a daily basis?
Can this be a part of any Christians life to where it is a habitual practice?"

Yes
"How have you dealt with professed Christians who sin in this way?"
Forgive and forget 7x77, move on
 

HAMel

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Can a professed Christian lie and bear false witness everyday ?

...yep, especially the one's who broadcast on all three major networks along with 65 cable channels around the world. The one's who..., for a small handling and carrying fee of only $39.95, will send you one of their prayer cloths. :thumbsup:
 

T Alan

New Member
I agree.....because how do you know who the genuine Christian is? Does God reveal him by having anyone glance at the Lambs Book of Life?

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'll bite .....

In a way, I have tried to bring this kind of behavior up, with little success, so I pray your OP has some success!

There is way to much of what you say, going on, in fact, over the past few years, things have gotten much worse.

I don't see how believers can be following Him by purposely trying to demean others. Insult others. Bear false witness against other. Share Gossip about others. Swear and cuss. Gang up on others with the intent to humiliate another person (I call it cyber bullying). Mock another, and even bring up past comments, but before they post in comment's section the edit it to read as they want it to read to bring more shame to the person, knowing this will lead to that person protecting themselves and responding, which is what they hoped for so they can further humiliate the person! Referring to a person's AGE and insulting them because they may be old or may have a disability. Inferring mental problems and poking fun at them! Correcting ones spelling and grammar with the purpose of humiliating them by, in my case, pointing ut that I am "supposed to be an author" subtly suggesting that I am in fact not an author, or they'd not have to correct my spelling or grammar! :tear:

All of this is petty, but it is intentionally done to PROVOKE the other parties, and what is a shame, it works, and things digress and regress from there into a slinging mud fest! :tear:

You are on to something, ICON, and I sure hope you can bring some folks under conviction, but I wouldn't look for it! Still I can hope!

Good imput Dude,

Here from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary...By W.R.Downing;
Quest. 61: What is the significance of the Ninth Commandment?
Ans: The Ninth Commandment requires both the maintenance and
the promotion of truth between human beings, and of our own
and of our neighbor’s good name, especially in witness–
bearing.
See also: Gen. 12:11–13, 19; 20:1–14; 30:31–33; Ex. 1:15–21;
22:10–12; 23:1; Lev. 5:1; 19:11, 15–16; Numb. 35:30; Deut. 1:15–17;
13:1–18; 17:6–12; 18:20–22; 19:15–21; 22:13–21; Josh. 2:2–21; 1
Sam. 16:1–5; 19:1–5; 2 Sam. 17:15–22; 1 Kgs. 21:1–13; 22:6–28; 2
Kgs. 5:5–27; 6:8–20; Job. 5:21; 27:3–6; Psa. 5:6; 12:1–5; 15:1–4;
112
27:12; 31:6; 35:11, 16, 20–21; 50:16–20; 55:21; 58:3; 116:11; 139:4,
23–24; Prov. 6:16–19; 9:7–8; 10:18–21; 11:12–13; 12:6, 13, 18, 22;
14:5, 7, 9, 14:15, 25; 18:8, 21; 19:5; 25:9–10, 18; 26:18–28; Eccl.
5:1–8; Isa. 5:23; 59:13–15; 63:8; Jer. 18:18; 20:10; Hos. 4:2; Zech.
8:17; Matt. 5:33–37, 48; 7:1–6; 10:17–20; 11:16–19; 12:34–37;
26:59–62; Jn. 8:44; 14:6; Acts 5:1–10; 24:5–6; Rom. 1:25; 3:8, 13–
14; 1 Cor. 4:3–5; 2 Cor. 2:17; Eph. 4:25, 29–31; Col. 3:8–9; 4:6; Titus
1:2; Heb. 6:13–18; 10:28–29; Jas. 1:26; 3:5–13; 1 Pet. 3:16; 1 Jn.
2:21–23; Rev. 21:8, 27; 22:15.
COMMENTARY
As with the preceding three Commandments, the analysis is twofold: first, a perpetual negative declaration prohibiting falsehood, and second, a positive
implication, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself,” i.e., maintain and promote truthfulness and equity to all those with whom we come in contact or
have any relation to—within the bounds of Scripture.

The Third Commandment forbids perjury against God, the Ninth forbids perjury against our fellow man. The Fifth Commandment guards the rights of
authority, the Sixth guards the rights of person and life, the Seventh guards the rights of marriage and family, and thus of society; the Eighth guards the
rights of property. The Ninth Commandment guards the rights of both name and reputation, and so necessarily guards the system of justice which is
absolutely essential to society itself (Psa. 11:1–4; Isa. 1:17, 23, 26).

The purpose of this Commandment is to secure the truth among men, which is absolutely essential to preserve individual life, reputation, justice and
society. When truth is considered relative, i.e., existential or apart from God– ordained absolutes, the very foundation of society is potentially destroyed, for
human society is based upon the presupposition that men are speaking the truth to one another.

The nature of falsehood derives from the devil. He put forth the first lie (Gen. 3:1–6), and is called the father of lies (Jn. 8:44). Satan or the devil is
described in Scripture as the destroyer (Rev. 9:11), adversary (1 Pet. 5:8), deceiver (Eph. 6:10; Rev. 20:10) and slanderer or accuser (1 Tim. 3:6–7; 1 Jn.
3:8; Rev. 12:10). His intent is to destroy God’s law–order by opposition,
deceit and accusation. Every lie reflects this devilish principle. Thus, every liar is in league with the devil and is set against the law–order of God.
Fallen man turned away from God and thus from any possibility of absolute and objective truth or reality. Fallen, sinful man has purposely
“exchanged the truth of God for ‘the lie,’” and thus the whole realm of humanity is based on a universal principle of falsehood with its depraved
results (Psa. 58:3; Rom. 1:18–32). This principle of falsehood may be relatively mild in the form of flattery or social politeness, or malignant in the
form of perjury and other malicious lies—yet it remains the one pervasive characteristic of fallen mankind.
To secure the truth, man must turn to the objective, authoritative Word of
God, to Divinely–ordained absolutes, i.e., to a “revelational epistemology,”
113
i.e., a practical theory of knowledge and truth based on Divine revelation. See
Question 13. The only approach to truth and knowledge is in and through the
Word of God (Jn. 17:17; Rom. 1:18–25). God is not only true, he is the
Source of all reality, truth and meaning. Apart from him, there is no truth—
only empirical speculation at best and at worst, utter [spiritual and moral]
irrationality.
Silence may be sin. One must exercise godly discernment as when to
speak and when not to speak. Sometimes, it is sinful not to speak, and at other
times, sinful to speak. Under certain circumstances, one must speak out for
the truth or commit sin (Ex. 23:1–2; 1 Sam. 19:4–5; Psa. 50:18; Prov. 12:22),
and at others, remain silent to protect one’s self or another from those who
have no right to know certain information (Prov. 11:9–13). At other times, we
must discern how much truth ought to be revealed or concealed (1 Sam. 16:1–
5). We must seek to maintain a clear conscience before God in accordance
with his Word (Acts 23:1).
God created man in his image and likeness, as a rational, morally–
responsible being to exercise godly dominion over creation. To fulfill this
mandate, man was created with the faculty of speech to commune with God
and communicate with his fellow man. Sin has dreadfully perverted the use of
the tongue. The very instrument created to praise God turns to curse him—
and to curse one’s fellow man. The tongue reveals the fullness of the heart or
inner being and expresses its depraved nature. (Matt. 12:34; Mk. 7:21–23;
Rom. 3:13–14; Jas. 2:2–12). Speech is “the exhalation of the soul.” The
believer is mandated to exercise dominion over his heart and tongue (Prov.
4:23; Rom. 6:14–18; Gal. 5:23; Eph. 4:22–25, 29–31; Jas. 1:26; 2:2–12). All
government necessarily begins with self–government, and self–government
necessarily begins with regeneration. A changed heart is necessary for a
changed tongue, and a sanctified personality is essential to mortifying the sins
of the tongue (Rom. 6:12–13; 8:13; Col. 3:5, 9–10). Do we lie?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'll bite .....

In a way, I have tried to bring this kind of behavior up, with little success, so I pray your OP has some success!

There is way to much of what you say, going on, in fact, over the past few years, things have gotten much worse.

I don't see how believers can be following Him by purposely trying to demean others. Insult others. Bear false witness against other. Share Gossip about others. Swear and cuss. Gang up on others with the intent to humiliate another person (I call it cyber bullying). Mock another, and even bring up past comments, but before they post in comment's section the edit it to read as they want it to read to bring more shame to the person, knowing this will lead to that person protecting themselves and responding, which is what they hoped for so they can further humiliate the person! Referring to a person's AGE and insulting them because they may be old or may have a disability. Inferring mental problems and poking fun at them! Correcting ones spelling and grammar with the purpose of humiliating them by, in my case, pointing ut that I am "supposed to be an author" subtly suggesting that I am in fact not an author, or they'd not have to correct my spelling or grammar! :tear:

All of this is petty, but it is intentionally done to PROVOKE the other parties, and what is a shame, it works, and things digress and regress from there into a slinging mud fest! :tear:

You are on to something, ICON, and I sure hope you can bring some folks under conviction, but I wouldn't look for it! Still I can hope!

Good imput Dude,

Here from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary...By W.R.Downing;
Quest. 61: What is the significance of the Ninth Commandment?
Ans: The Ninth Commandment requires both the maintenance and
the promotion of truth between human beings, and of our own
and of our neighbor’s good name, especially in witness–
bearing.
See also: Gen. 12:11–13, 19; 20:1–14; 30:31–33; Ex. 1:15–21;
22:10–12; 23:1; Lev. 5:1; 19:11, 15–16; Numb. 35:30; Deut. 1:15–17;
13:1–18; 17:6–12; 18:20–22; 19:15–21; 22:13–21; Josh. 2:2–21; 1
Sam. 16:1–5; 19:1–5; 2 Sam. 17:15–22; 1 Kgs. 21:1–13; 22:6–28; 2
Kgs. 5:5–27; 6:8–20; Job. 5:21; 27:3–6; Psa. 5:6; 12:1–5; 15:1–4;
112
27:12; 31:6; 35:11, 16, 20–21; 50:16–20; 55:21; 58:3; 116:11; 139:4,
23–24; Prov. 6:16–19; 9:7–8; 10:18–21; 11:12–13; 12:6, 13, 18, 22;
14:5, 7, 9, 14:15, 25; 18:8, 21; 19:5; 25:9–10, 18; 26:18–28; Eccl.
5:1–8; Isa. 5:23; 59:13–15; 63:8; Jer. 18:18; 20:10; Hos. 4:2; Zech.
8:17; Matt. 5:33–37, 48; 7:1–6; 10:17–20; 11:16–19; 12:34–37;
26:59–62; Jn. 8:44; 14:6; Acts 5:1–10; 24:5–6; Rom. 1:25; 3:8, 13–
14; 1 Cor. 4:3–5; 2 Cor. 2:17; Eph. 4:25, 29–31; Col. 3:8–9; 4:6; Titus
1:2; Heb. 6:13–18; 10:28–29; Jas. 1:26; 3:5–13; 1 Pet. 3:16; 1 Jn.
2:21–23; Rev. 21:8, 27; 22:15.
COMMENTARY
As with the preceding three Commandments, the analysis is twofold: first,
a perpetual negative declaration prohibiting falsehood, and second, a positive
implication, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself,” i.e., maintain and
promote truthfulness and equity to all those with whom we come in contact or
have any relation to—within the bounds of Scripture.
The Third Commandment forbids perjury against God, the Ninth forbids
perjury against our fellow man. The Fifth Commandment guards the rights of
authority, the Sixth guards the rights of person and life, the Seventh guards
the rights of marriage and family, and thus of society; the Eighth guards the
rights of property. The Ninth Commandment guards the rights of both name
and reputation, and so necessarily guards the system of justice which is
absolutely essential to society itself (Psa. 11:1–4; Isa. 1:17, 23, 26).
The purpose of this Commandment is to secure the truth among men,
which is absolutely essential to preserve individual life, reputation, justice and
society. When truth is considered relative, i.e., existential or apart from God–
ordained absolutes, the very foundation of society is potentially destroyed, for
human society is based upon the presupposition that men are speaking the
truth to one another.
The nature of falsehood derives from the devil. He put forth the first lie
(Gen. 3:1–6), and is called the father of lies (Jn. 8:44). Satan or the devil is
described in Scripture as the destroyer (Rev. 9:11), adversary (1 Pet. 5:8),
deceiver (Eph. 6:10; Rev. 20:10) and slanderer or accuser (1 Tim. 3:6–7; 1 Jn.
3:8; Rev. 12:10). His intent is to destroy God’s law–order by opposition,
deceit and accusation. Every lie reflects this devilish principle. Thus, every
liar is in league with the devil and is set against the law–order of God.
Fallen man turned away from God and thus from any possibility of
absolute and objective truth or reality. Fallen, sinful man has purposely
“exchanged the truth of God for ‘the lie,’” and thus the whole realm of
humanity is based on a universal principle of falsehood with its depraved
results (Psa. 58:3; Rom. 1:18–32). This principle of falsehood may be
relatively mild in the form of flattery or social politeness, or malignant in the
form of perjury and other malicious lies—yet it remains the one pervasive
characteristic of fallen mankind.
To secure the truth, man must turn to the objective, authoritative Word of
God, to Divinely–ordained absolutes, i.e., to a “revelational epistemology,”
113
i.e., a practical theory of knowledge and truth based on Divine revelation. See
Question 13. The only approach to truth and knowledge is in and through the
Word of God (Jn. 17:17; Rom. 1:18–25). God is not only true, he is the
Source of all reality, truth and meaning. Apart from him, there is no truth—
only empirical speculation at best and at worst, utter [spiritual and moral]
irrationality.
Silence may be sin. One must exercise godly discernment as when to
speak and when not to speak. Sometimes, it is sinful not to speak, and at other
times, sinful to speak. Under certain circumstances, one must speak out for
the truth or commit sin (Ex. 23:1–2; 1 Sam. 19:4–5; Psa. 50:18; Prov. 12:22),
and at others, remain silent to protect one’s self or another from those who
have no right to know certain information (Prov. 11:9–13). At other times, we
must discern how much truth ought to be revealed or concealed (1 Sam. 16:1–
5). We must seek to maintain a clear conscience before God in accordance
with his Word (Acts 23:1).
God created man in his image and likeness, as a rational, morally–
responsible being to exercise godly dominion over creation. To fulfill this
mandate, man was created with the faculty of speech to commune with God
and communicate with his fellow man. Sin has dreadfully perverted the use of
the tongue. The very instrument created to praise God turns to curse him—
and to curse one’s fellow man. The tongue reveals the fullness of the heart or
inner being and expresses its depraved nature. (Matt. 12:34; Mk. 7:21–23;
Rom. 3:13–14; Jas. 2:2–12). Speech is “the exhalation of the soul.” The
believer is mandated to exercise dominion over his heart and tongue (Prov.
4:23; Rom. 6:14–18; Gal. 5:23; Eph. 4:22–25, 29–31; Jas. 1:26; 2:2–12). All
government necessarily begins with self–government, and self–government
necessarily begins with regeneration. A changed heart is necessary for a
changed tongue, and a sanctified personality is essential to mortifying the sinsof the tongue (Rom. 6:12–13; 8:13; Col. 3:5, 9–10). Do we lie?
 
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