Simple and straight forward. Nothing is going to happen until January 2017, but with a new president, Democrat or Republican or even Tea Party, do you think a POTUS, along with a bi-partisan congress, can fix what Obama has done?
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Can America be Fixed and Return to Glory Days?
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
Paul,
I see three of us so far agree that we cannot return to the glory days. Here is why I think so. It is simple, the takers out-number the makers and with all the illegals coming in it will just grow larger in that direction. Now I am a pessimistic fellow, just ask my wife, but I cannot rule out God intervening and seeing some kind of miracles that leads us back to a healthy moral country again, but I think we are under His judgment.
With so many on welfare and disability and more to come, we will never be able to out vote them to put moral men/women in office. The only way out I think is to see economic collapse and a return to the 1930s with soup lines and worse. If that happens we will see the takers revolt for their monthly right to everyone else's money, but what that will lead to is pure speculation. I don't see a good future for our kids and grandkids. See I am a pessimistic fellow.
I see three of us so far agree that we cannot return to the glory days. Here is why I think so. It is simple, the takers out-number the makers and with all the illegals coming in it will just grow larger in that direction. Now I am a pessimistic fellow, just ask my wife, but I cannot rule out God intervening and seeing some kind of miracles that leads us back to a healthy moral country again, but I think we are under His judgment.
With so many on welfare and disability and more to come, we will never be able to out vote them to put moral men/women in office. The only way out I think is to see economic collapse and a return to the 1930s with soup lines and worse. If that happens we will see the takers revolt for their monthly right to everyone else's money, but what that will lead to is pure speculation. I don't see a good future for our kids and grandkids. See I am a pessimistic fellow.
General Mung Beans
Member
Options 1 and 4:
It is my firm belief that with the exception of modern technology and the issues of racial and gender equality, the period of American postwar prosperity from 1945 to 1968 is generally superior to that of current society. Besides the superficial aspects of popular culture and fashion, those years featured a genuinely progressive Democratic Party that was working to fulfill the ideals of the New Deal as exemplified in the Second Bill of Rights and a Republican party which if not actively supporting this was at least generally willing to maintain what had been achieved thus far. Unionization rates were at an all-time high while Democrats actively embraced progress and science, being far less infected by New Leftist ideologies that has turned many liberals anti-nuclear and anti-vaccination. Related to this, the Democratic Party fought and campaigned on economic and civil rights issues that affected all Americans rather than petty and divisive social issues based on identity politics which the Republicans have found equally easy to game to their advantage.
Since 2008 there have been encouraging trends that their may be a genuine progressive renaissance in American politics. In addition to the construction of an Obama coalition, the Great Recession has awakened many in American society to the insidious and growing evils of income inequality and the decimation of the American working class. Numerous progressives have been elected to office such as Senator Sanders of Vermont and Senator Warren of Massachusetts with several others running this year. As discussed on other threads in this forum, workers in the service sector are organizing much as their forefathers did in the manufacturing sector a century ago. Hopefully a "National Progressive" coalition will emerge that will de-emphasize social issues and call for an even hand on foreign policy while appealing to middle- and working-class Americans of all races and creeds to follow their economic interest by building on the Affordable Care Act to further strengthen the principle of universal health insurance, shoring up Social Security for future generations, expanding the rights of the American workingman in such areas as his minimum wage, vacation time, and benefits; revitalizing our infrastructure by expanding mass transit, and passenger rail service; renewing our cities through dense urban growth strategies; and achieving energy independence while reducing carbon consumption through ample use of nuclear power and natural gas.
It is my firm belief that with the exception of modern technology and the issues of racial and gender equality, the period of American postwar prosperity from 1945 to 1968 is generally superior to that of current society. Besides the superficial aspects of popular culture and fashion, those years featured a genuinely progressive Democratic Party that was working to fulfill the ideals of the New Deal as exemplified in the Second Bill of Rights and a Republican party which if not actively supporting this was at least generally willing to maintain what had been achieved thus far. Unionization rates were at an all-time high while Democrats actively embraced progress and science, being far less infected by New Leftist ideologies that has turned many liberals anti-nuclear and anti-vaccination. Related to this, the Democratic Party fought and campaigned on economic and civil rights issues that affected all Americans rather than petty and divisive social issues based on identity politics which the Republicans have found equally easy to game to their advantage.
Since 2008 there have been encouraging trends that their may be a genuine progressive renaissance in American politics. In addition to the construction of an Obama coalition, the Great Recession has awakened many in American society to the insidious and growing evils of income inequality and the decimation of the American working class. Numerous progressives have been elected to office such as Senator Sanders of Vermont and Senator Warren of Massachusetts with several others running this year. As discussed on other threads in this forum, workers in the service sector are organizing much as their forefathers did in the manufacturing sector a century ago. Hopefully a "National Progressive" coalition will emerge that will de-emphasize social issues and call for an even hand on foreign policy while appealing to middle- and working-class Americans of all races and creeds to follow their economic interest by building on the Affordable Care Act to further strengthen the principle of universal health insurance, shoring up Social Security for future generations, expanding the rights of the American workingman in such areas as his minimum wage, vacation time, and benefits; revitalizing our infrastructure by expanding mass transit, and passenger rail service; renewing our cities through dense urban growth strategies; and achieving energy independence while reducing carbon consumption through ample use of nuclear power and natural gas.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I do believe this is why today's Christian needs to cease and desist with the politics because it causes us to lose sight of CHRIST and what HE ACTUALLY HAS commissioned us to do.
Is the purpose of Christ to see a healthy, moral country or to see individual disciples made who may or may not galvanize a movement toward a healthier moral nation?
This country wasn't morally healthy when it was founded because the people weren't. What was hidden has simply been brought into the light.
More moral men/women in office will not make for a more moral country. This is a man -centric fix. If you want to make a more moral country, do it the way of Christ and complete His Commission. Point more folks to Christ and the country will become more Christ-like.
We have indeed lost our way. The only WAY out is THE WAY which is JESUS. Point people to HIM.
Impressive....
We all agree America has lost her way. Of course where we disagree is we need to be involved in the politics of this country. To not do so is what the church did in Germany while Hitler rose to power. IMHO...
We all agree America has lost her way. Of course where we disagree is we need to be involved in the politics of this country. To not do so is what the church did in Germany while Hitler rose to power. IMHO...
Do you have any scripture to support your view?
You know we have been called for the purpose of suffering with Christ, no?
See 1Peter 2:20-21
Seems you want to "fix" things so we don't have to pick up our cross and follow Him
I will stand by with an oxygen tank in case you are holding your breath waiting for any of the "politics outweigh the Bible" crowd to give you a scriptural response. :thumbsup:
You beat me to it. RD2 needs to define his terms otherwise it's just another leading question full of innuendo.
Example:
One person might think the glory days were the early 1800's. Pioneers fulfilling Manifest Destiny in striking out and settling the West. Others might say the post Civil War boom in the migration to the cities and the rise of the railroads (and other technology). For others it would be the post WW2 society--prosperous, inventive, the baby boom, the space age.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Indeed. If one is African-American, I would bet the 1950s and back would not be seen as too glorious. If one were Japanese-American, I don't think the interment camps of World War II would make them glory days.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
No WE don't. America never had a way. INDIVIDUALS are lost. INDIVIDUALS will be found.
For all the political talk that's done in "conservative" circles about wanting to make everyone into a group instead of individuals, some sure do adhere to the same thing when it meets their needs.
Does anyone ever wonder that if the church were leading folks to Christ AS ITS FOCUS, would there already be Christ-honoring judges, Supreme Court Justices, Congresses, and Presidents in place leading the country in a Christ-honoring manner?
The FIX is still Jesus. Even more so now than before since we have taken and in a lot of ways still have our eyes off Him.
...and if one were Central American some might think we were in the glory days today!
Rob
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I'm the first "No, America can't be fixed" vote.
Why?
Read Revelation.
Why?
Read Revelation.
Last edited by a moderator:
plain_n_simple
Active Member
DConn is right. The United States will either not exist, or it will be against Israel. There are no other options. Yes of course pray for her and encourage and vote for Christians and morals. But do not presume that the American way is what Jesus wants preached to cure the world. Our drive is not to fix America, but to preach the Gospel to the poor.
Here's my two cents:
As others have already posted, it's difficult for one to determine just what and when the "glory days" for America were---if, in fact, America ever really experienced such an era.
Moreover, I also agree with the concept that ultimately a Christian's main priority ought to be that of bringing glory to God.
However, that being said, I do not find any particular statement in the Bible that roundly condemns a child of God for getting involved in the realm of politics.
If a Christian completely shuns any kind of political activity, what would the ultimate result be? By default, we then would hand it over to those who are led by Satan---something that I don't believe any God-fearing person would want to see occur.
First Timothy 2:1-3 tells us to pray for those in positions of political authority.
Psalm 33:12 states that the nation whose God is the Lord is blessed. If only lost people ought to participate in the political realm, I don't see how God would bless that nation.
Jesus, in Matthew 5:13-14, tells us that we as God's people are to be salt and light, and I don't think He made an exception to this for those who involve themselves in politics.
It's easy for a person to roundly criticize or condemn something such as politics. OTOH, don't you think it'd be much better to try to do something to improve things than to merely point out what's wrong with something?
As others have already posted, it's difficult for one to determine just what and when the "glory days" for America were---if, in fact, America ever really experienced such an era.
Moreover, I also agree with the concept that ultimately a Christian's main priority ought to be that of bringing glory to God.
However, that being said, I do not find any particular statement in the Bible that roundly condemns a child of God for getting involved in the realm of politics.
If a Christian completely shuns any kind of political activity, what would the ultimate result be? By default, we then would hand it over to those who are led by Satan---something that I don't believe any God-fearing person would want to see occur.
First Timothy 2:1-3 tells us to pray for those in positions of political authority.
Psalm 33:12 states that the nation whose God is the Lord is blessed. If only lost people ought to participate in the political realm, I don't see how God would bless that nation.
Jesus, in Matthew 5:13-14, tells us that we as God's people are to be salt and light, and I don't think He made an exception to this for those who involve themselves in politics.
It's easy for a person to roundly criticize or condemn something such as politics. OTOH, don't you think it'd be much better to try to do something to improve things than to merely point out what's wrong with something?
Magnetic Poles
New Member
So, you can't have multiple roles in life? One to work for the betterment of your country and also to preach the Gospel? Add on that responsibility to one's family.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Seek His righteousness first, and these things shall be added. The focus is always Christ. Betterment of country and family "shall be added". Notice in what order these things should take place.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I agree. We need to "fight the good fight" for righteousness, wherever it comes under attack, whether in our legislatures, our courts or the Oval Office and governors' mansions. But the outcome will still be the same. There will just be more of us meeting Christ in the clouds when He calls us out of this world.
No disagreement with that. But why don't you give me a percentage of just how many folks "Will be found" out of those who are lost? Telll me what you see as an approxiamte number of saved verses non saved if you, Zaac, worked night and day to save them all by sharing the Gospel?
That is your view and your opinion. Other may disagree with you. But because it is how you see things on this board, I respect your view, I just respectfully disagree with what you said, because you are attack the persons view, and not their actions. We all have the right and responsibility to be concerned over any government we are under. It is our job to do what we can do, beginning with prayer, to make the government better when it comes to the needs of all its people, and the right to freedom of speech.
Most would call that a pie-in-the-sky or a spiritual panacea in ones approach to life. And while this would be wonderful to think of having, REALITY has dealt us the hand we have before us, and it is our job to do what we can with what we got, and to get crying over what might have been and dealing with what is. In other words it is what it is.
Because of sin nature, and man's free will, men and women have made choices and Jesus said the pathto heaven is narrow and sparsely traveled, while the road to hell or destruction is wide and heavily traveled. Because of this we know that life will be more of them and less of us, and the people who fill the policitcal positions you speak of are already on a road to destruction and the most we can do for any of these folks is pray.
No one on this board would disagree with you, but there is still the fact that we have what we have because sin nature has had its sway in the heart and life of these people. We have a combination of people in political positions. We have well meaning, good intentioned people of religious backgrounds, they are just not born again!
We have atheists in positions of government. We have people who belong to cults like mormons. We have skeptics, humanists, spiritualists, naturalists, etc. And it would be a wonderful world to live in if "Christ-honoring judges, Supreme Court Justices, Congresses, and Presidents in place leading the country in a Christ-honoring manner" existed ... but what did Jesus say, Zaac? I believe He said, "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
Then we have another dose of reality put before us, brother when Pauls writes about the world we live in in Romans 1:18-32, and here is one key verse from the teaching, "herefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen."
It looks like Moses and Israel among the Egyptians, where His people are placed in the midst of a wicked and evil people, and that blows your spiritual panacea right out the door.
We know we life not in a perfect world, now, and we are here to witness, but Jesus also prepared ur heart for that when he told us if we are not welcomed in the home of who we share the Gospel, we are to shake off our sandals and move on!
There is no way, just being real, that we could ever hope for "Christ-honoring judges, Supreme Court Justices, Congresses, and Presidents in place leading the country in a Christ-honoring manner" no mtter how well and how often we share the word.
Yes Jesus is the fix, but in reality, unless you are living in a fantasy world, there is no realization , nor should there be an expectations that we weill ever have this kind of world until e are take home to live with Him!
What I would say to you is that scripture doesn't support you, and the truth is, you can live with your head in the sand until He returns or you can engage in trying to make a better life and world through:
1) Sharing the Gospel, first and foremost;
2) Working to influence those people who are not believers that it is to their best interest to work fairly with and fon behalf of God's people [Godly the politics];
3) Realize the world is far from perfect. That it never will be perfect. And that God can use a righteous man to influence many for the cause of His people. Notice I said influence, meaning the ones influenced aren't born again, but they are the well meaning folks [still ging to hell], how can be influenced, sort of like the Pharoah.
This is ife brother. LIfe isn't fiar, and it surely isn't filled with all believers leading a country, because it that happened we'd have all the evil intentioned folks gathering to kill and drive us out!
I think this world is as God wants it to be, and we are his people are as he wants us to be. Nothing is perfect not will it be heaven on earth until He takes us home. Until then I stand on 2 Chron. 7:14-15, "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayer offered in this place." And I thank God for the god in my life, and pray as David said to pray and believe in Psalm 91 - "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.” Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence. He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler. You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day, Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday. A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you. Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked."