Can An Arminian Be OSAS?

[tyndale1946]

There are those of the Calvinist belief on here that believe in OSAS... I know a few and I am one... I heard this on another forum I go to, that one can be Arminian (of the freewill brethren) and also believe in OSAS... In all the years I have been in the church (over 50) I have never heard of freewill brethren believing in OSAS... If this is true in what context?... If it is the Sovereign Will Of God that saves his children and keeps them in his grace eternally which I believe (OSAS) then they can never be lost... Scriptures state he will never lose any of the tokens of grace the Father gave him... So if you are of the Arminian brethren are you also OSAS or is this unacceptable in your understanding of Freewill... Brother Glen

 

[annsni]

I was once of that camp but in recent years have seen the truth of the doctrine of grace. But I believed that it was our choice to turn to God and once we did, He would keep us. It's just what I was taught all of those years!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

As a 'Reformed Calvinist' I do not believe in OSAS. I believe in the Perseverance of the saints, which is not the same thing.

With regard to the O.P., Arminius himself was uncertain about it and only suggested that it needed consideration. Therefore I suppose Arminians can believe what they like about it.

 

[tyndale1946]

I was once of that camp but in recent years have seen the truth of the doctrine of grace. But I believed that it was our choice to turn to God and once we did, He would keep us. It's just what I was taught all of those years!

I agree Ann at one time I also believed I needed to do something for God to obtain his grace... None of us was born OSAS... God changed my heart I didn't change my own but once brought to that realization then and only then could I see the wonderous true beauty of Gods amazing grace... Knowing in my heart and soul the peace that passeth all understanding... Jesus Christ the Son Of The Most High God paid for my sins and all the sins of those the Father gave him and I can never fall from that grace I didn't deserve in the first place... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

As a 'Reformed Calvinist' I do not believe in OSAS. I believe in the Perseverance of the saints, which is not the same thing.

With regard to the O.P., Arminius himself was uncertain about it and only suggested that it needed consideration. Therefore I suppose Arminians can believe what they like about it.

I do not believe in OSAS. I believe in the Perseverance of the saints, which is not the same thing... So Martin what is the difference?... Brother Glen

 

[Martin Marprelate]

OSAS is the belief that once one has made a confession of faith in Christ, one is saved, regardless of subsequent behaviour or repentance (contra Matt. 7:21-23; Luke 6:46).
The Perseverance of the saints is altogether more Biblical. Here are three articles from the 1646 Baptist Confession. It's a bit less wordy here than the better-known 1689 Confession. Note especially Article XXIX.

XXIII.
All those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally fall away; seeing the gifts of God are without repentance; so that He still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise, and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock, which by faith they are fastened upon; not withstanding, through unbelief, and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of this light and love, be clouded and overwhelmed for a time; yet God is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palms of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
Matt. 7:24,25; John 13:10, 10:28,29; 1 Pet. 1:4,5,6; Isa. 49:13,14,15,16.

XXVI.
The same power that converts to faith in Christ, carrieth on the soul through all duties, temptations, conflicts, sufferings; and whatsoever a believer is, he is by grace, and is carried on in all obedience and temptations by the same.
1 Pet. 1:5, 2 Cor. 12:9, 1 Cor. 15:10; Phil. 2:12, 13; John 15:5; Gal. 2:19,20.

XXIX.
All believers are a holy and sanctified people, and that sanctification is a spiritual grace of the new covenant, and an effect of the love of God manifested in the soul, whereby the believer presseth after a heavenly and evangelical obedience to all the commands, which Christ as head and king in His new covenant hath prescribed to them.
1 Cor. 12; 1 Pet. 2:9; Eph. 1:4; 1 John 4:16; Matt. 28:20.

If a professing Christian continues indefinitely in sin and/or unbelief, what evidence can there be that he has been given New Birth (2 Cor. 13:5)?

 

[tyndale1946]

OSAS is the belief that once one has made a confession of faith in Christ, one is saved, regardless of subsequent behaviour or repentance (contra Matt. 7:21-23; Luke 6:46).
The Perseverance of the saints is altogether more Biblical. Here are three articles from the 1646 Baptist Confession. It's a bit less wordy here than the better-known 1689 Confession. Note especially Article XXIX.

XXIII.
All those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally fall away; seeing the gifts of God are without repentance; so that He still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise, and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock, which by faith they are fastened upon; not withstanding, through unbelief, and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of this light and love, be clouded and overwhelmed for a time; yet God is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palms of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
Matt. 7:24,25; John 13:10, 10:28,29; 1 Pet. 1:4,5,6; Isa. 49:13,14,15,16.

XXVI.
The same power that converts to faith in Christ, carrieth on the soul through all duties, temptations, conflicts, sufferings; and whatsoever a believer is, he is by grace, and is carried on in all obedience and temptations by the same.
1 Pet. 1:5, 2 Cor. 12:9, 1 Cor. 15:10; Phil. 2:12, 13; John 15:5; Gal. 2:19,20.

XXIX.
All believers are a holy and sanctified people, and that sanctification is a spiritual grace of the new covenant, and an effect of the love of God manifested in the soul, whereby the believer presseth after a heavenly and evangelical obedience to all the commands, which Christ as head and king in His new covenant hath prescribed to them.
1 Cor. 12; 1 Pet. 2:9; Eph. 1:4; 1 John 4:16; Matt. 28:20.

If a professing Christian continues indefinitely in sin and/or unbelief, what evidence can there be that he has been given New Birth (2 Cor. 13:5)?

This is so true but then again Man looks on the appearance only God looks on the heart... Man who was never in control of his natural birth is not in control of his Spiritual Birth either... They were both a work of God... He gives life in both!... Brother Glen

 

[robustheologian]

An inconsistent Arminian can. Just look here on BB. Most of the Arminians (or non-Calvinists as they like to be called) believe "once saved always saved". I call it 4-point Arminianism. It's as inconsistent as 4-point Calvinism.

 

[tyndale1946]

An inconsistent Arminian can. Just look here on BB. Most of the Arminians (or non-Calvinists as they like to be called) believe "once saved always saved". I call it 4-point Arminianism. It's as inconsistent as 4-point Calvinism.

I want to clarify something here as I'm some have thought about those who believe in O.S.A.S like myself... Some would say well if I believed as you believe I would go out and drink my fill of sin... Well all I can tell you is you can try but remember this parable

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The way I understand this scripture is this is our walk in the Lord and as we walk in the Lord, and do what the Lord commands us to do we shall reap those benefits and blessings of walking with the Lord... If we stray with the knowledge we have in and of the Lord, that servant who the Lord has given much shall receive greater stripes... I'm not say this just applies just to those brethren that believe in O.S.A.S, this scriptures applies to ALL OF US in our walk with the Lord... Brother Glen

 

[Martin Marprelate]

12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Is that not rather clear? If there is no repentance, no hungering and thirsting after righteousness, what evidence is there that one is saved? It is saying that that which is born of the Spirit can still be flesh.

 

[steaver]

There are those of the Calvinist belief on here that believe in OSAS... I know a few and I am one... I heard this on another forum I go to, that one can be Arminian (of the freewill brethren) and also believe in OSAS... In all the years I have been in the church (over 50) I have never heard of freewill brethren believing in OSAS... If this is true in what context?... If it is the Sovereign Will Of God that saves his children and keeps them in his grace eternally which I believe (OSAS) then they can never be lost... Scriptures state he will never lose any of the tokens of grace the Father gave him... So if you are of the Arminian brethren are you also OSAS or is this unacceptable in your understanding of Freewill... Brother Glen

The very few Arminians that I have seen posting here do not believe in OSAS. I find it very odd to here Calvinist here say they do not believe that once God saves a person they are not always saved. Strange indeed!

 

[steaver]

I agree Ann at one time I also believed I needed to do something for God to obtain his grace... None of us was born OSAS... God changed my heart I didn't change my own but once brought to that realization then and only then could I see the wonderous true beauty of Gods amazing grace... Knowing in my heart and soul the peace that passeth all understanding... Jesus Christ the Son Of The Most High God paid for my sins and all the sins of those the Father gave him and I can never fall from that grace I didn't deserve in the first place... Brother Glen

I was born-again at the young age of ten but it wasn't until age 33 when my salvation was challenged by some well meaning local church folks that God began calling me to search the scriptures to be sure I was indeed saved. After about two years of careful prayer and study I fully understood OSAS.

As for believing I had to do something for God or live a special way to be saved, I never felt that way. I always believed it was by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and a gift from God that I was safe and secure. The biblical doctrines of grace are such a wonderful blessing!! It saddens me that there are Christians who believe they must somehow maintain their own salvation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The very few Arminians that I have seen posting here do not believe in OSAS. I find it very odd to here Calvinist here say they do not believe that once God saves a person they are not always saved. Strange indeed!

Might I gently suggest that you read my posts again? Maybe then you will understand them better.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Is that not rather clear? If there is no repentance, no hungering and thirsting after righteousness, what evidence is there that one is saved? It is saying that that which is born of the Spirit can still be flesh.

Brother Martin,

Yes, I agree. To maintain one can be born again, but have no repentance or live in a constant state of habitual sin is to contend that the flesh of man is more powerful than the Spirit of God in a believer.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Brother Martin,

Yes, I agree. To maintain one can be born again, but have no repentance or live in a constant state of habitual sin is to contend that the flesh of man is more powerful than the Spirit of God in a believer.

Many preach that repentance is not necessary and therefore conclude that one can live a life of sin, and still fully expect to go to heaven when they die. Antinomianism (lawless living) is alive and well. Those in Matthew 7:21-23 lived 'lawlessly'...

 

[tyndale1946]

Many preach that repentance is not necessary and therefore conclude that one can live a life of sin, and still fully expect to go to heaven when they die. Antinomianism (lawless living) is alive and well. Those in Matthew 7:21-23 lived 'lawlessly'...

I have a question... Can God save a man at the hour of his death though he was a criminal all his life?... Brother Glen

 

[Internet Theologian]

I have a question... Can God save a man at the hour of his death though he was a criminal all his life?... Brother Glen

Of course. What do you think? I think of the man on the cross who died along our Lord. Obviously the Father revealed the Christ to him, and he was converted:

One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23

I believe a careful look at the text shows repentance and revelation in the heart of one criminal.

Of course God can save whomever He wills to save at any point in their earthly life.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I have a question... Can God save a man at the hour of his death though he was a criminal all his life?... Brother Glen

Hi Brother Glen,

Yes, the thief on the cross is a prime example. Repentance in the Greek only means a change of mind, in regards to salvation repentance means the sinner has a change of mind in their view toward sin (they begin to hate it), they see their need for a Savior, and want to obey God's commandments. Repentance caused by God in the heart of the sinner per the book of James and many other scriptures will produce a change in behavior that includes good works and obeying God's commandments as explained in 1 John (though of course nobody keeps the commandments perfectly). Also it is important to note it is possible for a born again child of God can fall into grave sin such as David did with adultery and murder, but they wouldn't fall into habitual sin (e.g. serial killer or serial adulterer). The example of one becoming born again on their deathbed such as the thief on the cross is a reality, he undoubtedly repented (had a change of mind), but his repentance didn't produce good works as he was near his end, however if the thief had time to live out his life further he most certainly would have had works and obedience to God's commandments as Philippians tells us " it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" and Ephesians 2:10 tells us believers are in fact "ordained" (in Greek literally translated predestinated) by God that they "should walk in good works", thus the outcome of repentance is never in doubt. The fact that the thief rebuked the other criminal who was on the cross who was mocking Jesus shows us that repentance had actual effects on how he lived for even the short time he had remaining.

 

[tyndale1946]

Of course. What do you think? I think of the man on the cross who died along our Lord. Obviously the Father revealed the Christ to him, and he was converted:

One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23

I believe a careful look at the text shows repentance and revelation in the heart of one criminal.

Of course God can save whomever He wills to save at any point in their earthly life.

I knew the answer I was just trying to sneak one by you... You brethren are sharp!... Brother GlenWhistling

 

[tyndale1946]

Hi Brother Glen,

Yes, the thief on the cross is a prime example. Repentance in the Greek only means a change of mind, in regards to salvation repentance means the sinner has a change of mind in their view toward sin (they begin to hate it), they see their need for a Savior, and want to obey God's commandments. Repentance caused by God in the heart of the sinner per the book of James and many other scriptures will produce a change in behavior that includes good works and obeying God's commandments as explained in 1 John (though of course nobody keeps the commandments perfectly). Also it is important to note it is possible for a born again child of God can fall into grave sin such as David did with adultery and murder, but they wouldn't fall into habitual sin (e.g. serial killer or serial adulterer). The example of one becoming born again on their deathbed such as the thief on the cross is a reality, he undoubtedly repented (had a change of mind), but his repentance didn't produce good works as he was near his end, however if the thief had time to live out his life further he most certainly would have had works and obedience to God's commandments as Philippians tells us " it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" and Ephesians 2:10 tells us believers are in fact "ordained" (in Greek literally translated predestinated) by God that they "should walk in good works", thus the outcome of repentance is never in doubt. The fact that the thief rebuked the other criminal who was on the cross who was mocking Jesus shows us that repentance had actual effects on how he lived for even the short time he had remaining.

Brother Joe I knew for sure I couldn't sneak one by you being were kinda of the same cloth... But I had to give it the old try... Agreed with both comments... Brother Glen