Can An Arminian Be OSAS?

[Internet Theologian]

And I believe Calvinism has produced dead churches. (I do agree with most of your assessment)

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That seems to be an accusation, 'the frozen chosen' syndrome. I've not seen it though. The preachers I listen to and admire seem very much alive. Now there is this too, there isn't the yelling and screaming nonsense, and I don't find that to be preaching in my opinion. The style of good solid doctrine, insight, application, thoughtful exegesis is my thing - no yelling needed!

 

[JonShaff]

That seems to be an accusation, 'the frozen chosen' syndrome. I've not seen it though. The preachers I listen to and admire seem very much alive. Now there is this too, there isn't the yelling and screaming nonsense, and I don't find that to be preaching in my opinion. The style of good solid doctrine, insight, application, thoughtful exegesis is my thing - no yelling needed!

My top three are Begg, Piper and MacArthur...and I would assume their churches do a splendid job of discipling.

But I've known many who teach systematic theology over and over and never delve into application. The result is a museum of stiff necked "good people"

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[Internet Theologian]

My top three are Begg, Piper and MacArthur...and I would assume their churches do a splendid job of discipling.

But I've known many who teach systematic theology over and over and never delve into application. The result is a museum of stiff necked "good people"

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Yes, I like them as well. I also love Sproul, Paul Washer, James Montgomery Boice (the late), D James Kennedy and D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (both late as well) and Voddie Baucham.

 

[JonShaff]

I like Bacham and washer as well

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[Internet Theologian]

Maybe you'll like my new thread. Just some thoughts.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Hey JonShaff perhaps if I'm passing through OK I can stop in, preach, and help deaden your church!

 

[JonShaff]

Hey JonShaff perhaps if I'm passing through OK I can stop in, preach, and help deaden your church!

I should have said "Can " deaden a church. Not always the result

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[steaver]

Yeah I agree...Arminianism (modified or not) is the doctrines of men in contrast to Calvinism's doctrines of grace and God.

Lol. There is a reason it is called Calvin-ism! Calvin being a man of course who either resurrected this error in theology or actually came up with it himself. Either way, it is a doctrine of men.

There is a reason 99% of Calvinist say they began believing in the freewill of man to choose; the Spirit is who teaches the heart. Then man comes along and thinks he can direct God. God is Sovereign and cannot be refused His ways. He will direct the heart to embrace the truth, even when the mind wants to believe otherwise. This is why you see most Calvinist preachers preaching like freewill preachers. And when it comes to witnessing, generally the truth comes forth in spite of faulty theology.

 

[robustheologian]

Lol. There is a reason it is called Calvin-ism! Calvin being a man of course who either resurrected this error in theology or actually came up with it himself. Either way, it is a doctrine of men.

Lol. There is a reason it is called Arminian-ism! Arminius being a man of course who either resurrected this error in theology or actually came up with it himself. Either way, it is a doctrine of men.

There is a reason 99% of Calvinist say they began believing in the freewill of man to choose; the Spirit is who teaches the heart.

Here is the inherent flaw in Arminianism...low view of Scripture. Calvinists would rather have the Word (God's supreme authority) teach us rather than claim to be taught by a spirit. SOLA SCRIPTURA!!

God is Sovereign and cannot be refused His ways. He will direct the heart to embrace the truth, even when the mind wants to believe otherwise.

This is true. Sadly, Arminianism is so faulty of a theology that if one consistently followed it, one is left with terrible heresies such as open theism, works-based salvation, and an anthropocentric worldview.

 

[steaver]

Lol. There is a reason it is called Arminian-ism! Arminius being a man of course who either resurrected this error in theology or actually came up with it himself. Either way, it is a doctrine of men.
.

Exactly! Amen! Tis why I do not parrot either ism.

 

[steaver]

Here is the inherent flaw in Arminianism...low view of Scripture. Calvinists would rather have the Word (God's supreme authority) teach us rather than claim to be taught by a spirit. SOLA SCRIPTURA!!
.

You would blasphemy the Holy Spirit! Remarkable! If you have dismissed the Holy Spirit's role as Teacher, then no amount of SOLA SCRIPTURAL will bring you understanding.

 

[steaver]

This is true. Sadly, Arminianism is so faulty of a theology that if one consistently followed it, one is left with terrible heresies such as open theism, works-based salvation, and an anthropocentric worldview.

Never really debated Arminianism much. I don't think Arminians have an understanding of what it means to be born-again though. Calvinist understand born-again, they just don't understand it is a post cross implementation.

 

[Rippon]

He will direct the heart to embrace the truth, even when the mind wants to believe otherwise.

In many places within Holy Writ the mind and heart are interchangeable terms.

This is why you see most Calvinist preachers preaching like freewill preachers.

How so? In their preaching they certainly are opposed to the free-will myth.

 

[JonShaff]

We are given a new heart

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[Rippon]

We are given a new heart

Yes we are.Our minds are made new.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Never really debated Arminianism much. I don't think Arminians have an understanding of what it means to be born-again though. Calvinist understand born-again, they just don't understand it is a post cross implementation.

Brother Steaver,

Good evening! If people prior to the cross were not "born again" how did John the Baptist have the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb? Also, why did Jesus tell Nicodemus, "Ye must be born again" (John 3:7) prior to cross. Moreover, if people weren't born again prior to Acts why did Jesus also tell Nicodemus, "8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)? If you were correct, shouldn't Jesus have said "so is every one that will be born of the Spirit", but rather he put in the present tense and said, "so is every one that is born of the Spirit"? All of this proves that even Old Testament saints were born again.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Brother Rippon,

Yes we are .Our minds are made new.

Agreed God first has to give us a "heart transplant", then we "causes" us to obey his commandments. "
Good point brother Rippon,

I like the passage from Ezekiel as an illustration of the new birth. Notice all the many "wills" in the passage and that they all refer to God doing the action, not man's will, "25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.” (Ezekiel 36:25-27)

All together if you are counting there is a total of 7 “will I” and “I wills” in the passage. I believe seven is the number of completion. This passage shows indisputably there is indeed a will involved in regeneration, nor is the gospel involved, but rather it is God’s will, not man’s and His sovereign working without means. Man is only an inactive recipient of all the things God does to him described in the passage He performs no verbs until the last verse in which.it ends showing the result of the new birth is that God will “cause you to walk” in His statutes, thus even after regeneration man can make no claim of credit to obeying God.

 

[Rippon]

I just see that the Bible Teaches in the Middle of those Camps. Calvinism is too far to the one side of the road, Arminian is too far to the other. The Bible is directly in the middle

You are dead wrong.

"When some of us preach Calvinism, and some Arminianism, we cannot both be right; it is of no use trying to think we can be. 'Yes,' and 'No,' cannot both be true. Truth does not vacillate like a pendulum which shakes backwards and forwards...One must be right; the other wrong."

 

[steaver]

You are dead wrong.

"When some of us preach Calvinism, and some Arminianism, we cannot both be right; it is of no use trying to think we can be. 'Yes,' and 'No,' cannot both be true. Truth does not vacillate like a pendulum which shakes backwards and forwards...One must be right; the other wrong."

Or both are part right and part wrong! just preach the bible! Leave the man-made isms alone. If everyone just left them alone then they could properly die! Amen!

 

[JonShaff]

Brother Rippon,





Agreed God first has to give us a "heart transplant", then we "causes" us to obey his commandments. "
Good point brother Rippon,

I like the passage from Ezekiel as an illustration of the new birth. Notice all the many "wills" in the passage and that they all refer to God doing the action, not man's will, "25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.” (Ezekiel 36:25-27)

All together if you are counting there is a total of 7 “will I” and “I wills” in the passage. I believe seven is the number of completion. This passage shows indisputably there is indeed a will involved in regeneration, nor is the gospel involved, but rather it is God’s will, not man’s and His sovereign working without means. Man is only an inactive recipient of all the things God does to him described in the passage He performs no verbs until the last verse in which.it ends showing the result of the new birth is that God will “cause you to walk” in His statutes, thus even after regeneration man can make no claim of credit to obeying God.

Whoa Whoa whoa, wait a minute.


God WILL put a new heart in someone? This is regeneration, correct? Yes it is. And how can any OT saints be born again if God has yet to do this?