Can An Unregenerate Man Repent?

[AustinC]

Man has to repent to be saved. It's simple the road to hell does not lead any where else. Man has to turn and follow a different direction. To repent means to turn.
MB

Man MUST before God can. That is your preaching, but it is not the gospel taught in the Bible.

You remove grace from God.

 

[Dave G]

If she had died the day before the apostle's visit, it is not hard to believe she would have been saved under the Old Testament faith criteria.

To me, that would be the same as the New Testament faith criteria, found here:
Hebrews 12:2, Hebrews 11:1, Ephesians 2:8, 2 Thessalonians 3:2, Romans 10:17, Galatians 2:16-20.

So there is a prior basis of personal faith which God recognizes as He opens her heart to Paul's words. The same can be said of Jesus' disciples who left their fishing business to go to the Jordan and hear the witness of John the Baptist, and who then followed Jesus when John identifies the Lamb of God. It was "given to them" to understand the mystery of the kingdom (Matthew 13:11-12) because they had already expressed interest and faith ("to him who has more will be given").

So, when you read the Scriptures for yourself, you see that God, in effect, rewards people for their faith and belief in His Son by granting them salvation, and penalizes them for their refusal to believe by casting them into Hell?

That doesn't seem odd, especially in the light of Romans 4:4, Romans 11:5-6 and Ephesians 2:9?

In a nutshell, the sheep Jesus referred to as hearing His voice were those in Israel who had already inclined their hearts toward God, and on that basis were given more truth and the ability to understand it.

I see.
So to you, Romans 1:18-20, Romans 3:10-18 and John 3:19-20 ( among others ) do not describe all mankind's default attitude towards God, just some of us.

Basically, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that it is up to us to determine who God gives the gift of eternal life to, and that His choice depends upon our choice.
OK, I understand your view, even if I don't agree with it.

May God bless you sir, and may He remind you daily of His grace through Jesus Christ.

 

[Tsalagi]

I cited the passage. You can read it. Romans 3: No one seeks God. It is very clear.
Ephesians 2: All were dead. But God makes people alive.

Do humans make themselves spiritually alive so that they can repent, which then moves God to graciously save them?

The text of scripture has been shared. It is incumbent upon you to grasp what it says.

Lack of initiative (seeking) does not mean there is no ability to respond (repent and believe). This is why I have emphasized the point elsewhere that seeking/striving for salvation is not required. Faith comes by hearing, not by seeking.

 

[Tsalagi]

To me, that would be the same as the New Testament faith criteria, found here:
Hebrews 12:2, Hebrews 11:1, Ephesians 2:8, 2 Thessalonians 3:2, Romans 10:17, Galatians 2:16-20.

So, when you read the Scriptures for yourself, you see that God, in effect, rewards people for their faith and belief in His Son by granting them salvation, and penalizes them for their refusal to believe by casting them into Hell?

That doesn't seem odd, especially in the light of Romans 4:4, Romans 11:5-6 and Ephesians 2:9?

I see.
So to you, Romans 1:18-20, Romans 3:10-18 and John 3:19-20 ( among others ) do not describe all mankind's default attitude towards God, just some of us.

Basically, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that it is up to us to determine who God gives the gift of eternal life to, and that His choice depends upon our choice.
OK, I understand your view, even if I don't agree with it.

May God bless you sir, and may He remind you daily of His grace through Jesus Christ.

John 1:12, for example, does not say "As many as He gave power received Him," but "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name." To me John's order of events is clear: receive the Son, believe in the name of the Son, and then receive the power to become a son.

 

[Sai]

Time for another M I L K Thread to end.
Come on guys. Salvation is of the Jews

Blessings

 

[AustinC]

Lack of initiative (seeking) does not mean there is no ability to respond (repent and believe). This is why I have emphasized the point elsewhere that seeking/striving for salvation is not required. Faith comes by hearing, not by seeking.

Jesus answers you and shows your first assertion is incorrect.
Faith does come by hearing. The sheep God gives hear Jesus voice and follow.
John 6:36-37,44-47
But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 10:3-5,14-16
To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

 

[Dave G]

John 1:12, for example, does not say "As many as He gave power received Him," but "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name." To me John's order of events is clear: receive the Son, believe in the name of the Son, and then receive the power to become a son.

Thank you for the reference to John 1:12.
Here's what I see when I open up the passage a bit to include more of the Scriptures:

" He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." ( John 1:10-13 ).

10) Christ was in the world and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.
To me, the first "world" is the world of men, the second "world" is the entire earth, and the last "world" is the same as "world" in John 15:18, the world of unbelievers that do not know the Lord, nor does He know them ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
However, He does know His sheep and they know Him ( John 10:4-5, John 10:14, John 10:27, 1 Corinthians 8:3 ).

11) He came to His own...the Jews and His own people, in the physical sense ( for Jesus was born a Jew, see Matthew 1 and Luke 1 )...and they did not welcome Him.

12) But as many as did welcome Him, to them gave He the authority to become ( resemble or begin to be ) the sons of God.
They were the ones that believe on His name.

13) The ones that did believe on His name, were not born of blood ( inheritance ), not born of the will of the flesh, and not born of the will of men...
But were born of ( by or from ) God.

In other words, the entire passage is describing a world of people that did not and do not know Christ, and a world of people that did and do...
when populated by other facts from the rest of Scripture.
What can be said about the people that did, was that their being born of God was not of blood, not of their own will and not of the will of others.
It was strictly of God's will ( please see Romans 9:14-24 and James 1:18 ).

Our will had absolutely nothing to do with it.

So, even though it does not say what you stated in the above quote, I see quite a bit when I plug the verse back into the passage, read it as a whole and bring in other information from various parts of His word.
Those who did receive Him, were not born of God as a result of their own will.


By extension, their repentance did not determine whether or not they were born again.
God did.

 

[Salty]

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