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Can BACKSLIDING/DISOBEDIENT Christians be DEMONIZED?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ROBERTGUWAPO, Sep 25, 2005.

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  1. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    I did write ACCEPT after the word entertain, see the quote by me below

     
    #41 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  2. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    ROBERT ,I think your going nowhere with this one hang it up .
     
    #42 SAMPLEWOW, Sep 29, 2005
  3. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    AMEN
     
    #43 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  4. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

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    Right from Wrong:

    1. Ephesians 4:27, "...and do not give the DEVIL a FOOTHOLD." (Foothold as explained by commentaries means "place." A place where? Your body of course!

    2. Luke 13:16, "Then should not this woman, A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM, whom Satan has KEPT BOUND for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what BOUND her?"

    Compare Luke 13:16 with Galatians 3:29, "If you BELONG TO CHRIST, then you are ABRAHAM'S SEED..."

    Am I giving you a hard time? :D Let us proceed logically, if what you are saying is that 2nd Cor 11:4 doesn't mean what I say it means, then what does it really mean?

    Supporting or counter verses please. :D

    Marcia, 2nd Cor 11:4 is not only about accepting false teaching. Let me enumerate:

    1. preaching a different Jesus
    2. accepting another spirit
    3. accepting a different gospel

    What is it about the item 2 that you don't understand [​IMG]

    [ September 29, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: ROBERTGUWAPO ]
     
    #44 ROBERTGUWAPO, Sep 29, 2005
  5. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Oh boy another one who enjoys semantics.

    #1...Again your misunderstanding of the meaning of another word, FOOTHOLD...Martin Luther once said "that it isn't your fault if a bird flies over your head, but it is your fault if it makes a nest in your hair. When we harbor sin in your hearts, we DO give the devil a foothold and can easily become his unwilling dupes. This is no game, but deadly warfare"..... Everyone knows what foothold means and it has NOTHING to do with entering into someone's body and controling them.

    #2....ALL JEWS were called sons or daughters of Abraham, but NOT ALL Jews were saved. ( Those who were grafted into the FAMILY the believing GENTILES are now part of that family ). So obviously this woman wasn't saved.

    #3...Now that both your examples have been shown to be AGAIN taken out of context and added your new meaning to them. What else do you have ?
     
    #45 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  6. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    ROBERTGUWAPO, does your church and Pastor believe this too? I'm curious.
     
    #46 Rachel, Sep 29, 2005
  7. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Hi Rachel are you a night owl too
     
    #47 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  8. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Yes ma'am! Hey there! LOL
     
    #48 Rachel, Sep 29, 2005
  9. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Good to be back on. hey i am going to PM you ok ?
     
    #49 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  10. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Alrighty. LOL
     
    #50 Rachel, Sep 29, 2005
  11. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

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    Our BAPTIST church doesn't have an official stand. Church elders tend to believe in the possility of demonization but they don't force it on the members.

    Our pastor believes so because he has experience with Christians who were demonized because they toyed with the occult.

    My best man's wife, a top psychiatrist who happens to be a Christian, based in Manila, has counseled and helped a lot of Christian patients get out of demonic control.

    Her first case went along like this...

    Around ten years ago a mother brought a patient to her for consultation. The psychiatrist asked what the problem was. The patient could not answer. It seems that the patient could not speak.

    Doctor: "What's the problem?"
    Patient: "Hmmmp, Hmmmp..."
    Doctor: "You can't talk, but can you write?"
    The patient nodded and was given a pen and paper.
    The patient wrote: "Christian--Backslide..."

    The doctor then brought the patient and his mom to her local church for the pastor to examine.
    They found out that the patient had toyed with occultism and had inserted goat's hair inside his private region [Edited for offensive wording. Remember that parents allow their children to read these forums.], prompting a demon to invade his body.

    After the demon was expelled through prayer and fasting, the patient was able to talk again and go back to his church to resume normal worship patterns.

    The patient said that, "The devil inside me was preventing me from speaking. I'll never toy with the occult again."

    There are hundreds of "documented cases" of exorcism of demonized Christians. Even the conversations between the demon, the demonized, and the exorcist have been recorded and documented.

    Often, when the demon is bound under the authority of Christ, and asked what prompted it to invade a Christian, the demon would point out a "toying around with the occult sin." Oftentimes, the demon's answer would be like this, "this CHRISTIAN has given us a LEGAL right to invade because he has opened up doorways through occultic and severe sexual sin."

    The other type of deliverance is when the demon, under the authority of Christ, is bound and silenced, and the demonized and the demon are the only ones who carry a conversation.

    The conversation often goes like this--the pastor verifying whether the demonized is really a Christian by asking several questions. Questions like--when were you saved? why do you think you are saved? what verses do you base your salvation on? And usually, the demonized give the right answers indicative of someone who has accepted Christ in the past as Lord and Savior.

    Rachel, this is my observation: Christians who have not seen or have been involved with demonized Christians will of course stand by their preconceived notions.

    The question we have to ask ourselves is this--are those baptists who are involved in helping demonized Christians, JUST MAKING THINGS UP AND DELUDING THEMSELVES?

    Robert

    [ September 30, 2005, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
    #51 ROBERTGUWAPO, Sep 29, 2005
  12. ROBERTGUWAPO

    ROBERTGUWAPO Member

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    Right From Wrong,

    Since we can't agree on the verses, let us move away from the verses.

    One question--What spirit is possessing the Vineyard Fellowship Christians and Pentecostal Christians involved in the Holy Laughter and Drunk in the Spirit Movement when during their services they HOWL LIKE WOLVES, BARK LIKE DOGS, KARATE CHOP THE AIR, ROLL ABOUT THE CARPET, OINK LIKE PIGS, LAUGH FOR HOURS, FALL BACKWARDS, RUN IN CIRCLES LIKE ATHLETES, FROTH AT THE MOUTH, JERK UNCONTROLLABLY, SHRIEK HORRIBLY, END UP IN HORRIBLE SPASMS, SPIT AT EACH OTHER and a whole lot more...

    http://reformednet.org/refnet/cults/toronto/laugh.htm

    Don't evade the question and answer it directly--what Spirit? [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [ September 29, 2005, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: ROBERTGUWAPO ]
     
    #52 ROBERTGUWAPO, Sep 29, 2005
  13. CYBERDOVE

    CYBERDOVE New Member

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    I know one thing I would not converse with a demon in any way shape or form. I would not ask him any questions and expect for him to give me anything except for lies, false hoods and false doctrines so that he can confuse me. Many people profess CHRIST with their mouth, but do not have HIM in their, body, souls, hearts, or minds etc. A demon's words are not to held up as a validation of anything. [​IMG]
     
    #53 CYBERDOVE, Sep 29, 2005
  14. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Robert why does there have to be a " SPIRIT " for people to act weird ? Not everything that happens is controlled by Spirits. WE have a free will, WE make choices, WE have emotions et.

    Why can't it be chalked up to people being easliy influenced ? Why can't it be chalked up to pride and wanting to be seen and to show that one is more spiritual than another. I covered this in my Bible study on Tongues which can be found on another thread.

    Again not everyone who says they are saved are. If the EXPERENCES that people have that you mentioned about CANNOT be backed up by scripture and you being able to find believers in the Bible that have " Experenced " the same thing, then it isn't real in the since that it is from God or from Satan just people being people.
     
    #54 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  15. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    People want to see a sign. And when one comes along and proclaims to be from God, people who do not know better fall right on in with it. It may not be the people who are demon possessed buut the leaders who brought it to them. They prey on people who are weak in scripture, are easily lead astray, weak in true faith. Possibly these people are victims of one who knows (or possibly does not know) what they are doing is not from God.
     
    #55 donnA, Sep 29, 2005
  16. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    You know we can't blame every current activity on demons, humans are perfectly capable on their won to do all manner of evil, since the garden we have no problem thinking it up for ourselves. Ultimately it goes back to satan in the garden, but now, we know how to do it all on our own. Thats why we need Jesus.
     
    #56 donnA, Sep 29, 2005
  17. One of His sheep

    One of His sheep Guest

    I agree with RFW and donnA.
    You cannot blame everything on the spirit world.
    Our flesh is still in a fallen state until our glorification.

    [​IMG]
     
    #57 One of His sheep, Sep 29, 2005
  18. RightFromWrong

    RightFromWrong Guest

    Hey Robert it just dawned on me. You were so adamant about having to use scripture to back up OUR points and when we did and refuted your points by examining scripture you reverted to peoples " Feelings " and " Experences ".

    Whats up with that. Scripture isn't good enough any more when it doesn't fit what you believe ?
    ;)
     
    #58 RightFromWrong, Sep 29, 2005
  19. SAMPLEWOW

    SAMPLEWOW New Member

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    AMEN!!!!!!

    I fail to understand this way of thinking as well.

    Everytime I run in circles all I end up catching is my tail!
     
    #59 SAMPLEWOW, Sep 29, 2005
  20. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Good point RFW, all our 'christian' experiences must be able to be backed with scripture or it isn't biblical, and is a counterfeit.
     
    #60 donnA, Sep 29, 2005
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