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Can baptists Hold To Some Charasmatic Theology?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Robert Snow
New Member
Since there is not any requirement needed for a group to call themselves Baptist, you are likely to find most any belief in some Baptist church somewhere.
Google "charismatic baptist churches". You will see Baptist Churches that call themselves "Charismatic"
The question is, what does Charismatic mean to them.
Dictionary.com defines the word Charismatic as follows:
characterizing Christians of various denominations who seek an ecstatic religious experience, sometimes including speaking in tongues and instantaneous healing.
Dictionary.com defines "ecstasy" as follows:
1.rapturous delight.
2.an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling.
3.the frenzy of poetic inspiration.
4.mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
Who would be argue that Baptists should NOT "seek an ecstatic religious experience"? That would be quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit.
The question is, what does Charismatic mean to them.
Dictionary.com defines the word Charismatic as follows:
characterizing Christians of various denominations who seek an ecstatic religious experience, sometimes including speaking in tongues and instantaneous healing.
Dictionary.com defines "ecstasy" as follows:
1.rapturous delight.
2.an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling.
3.the frenzy of poetic inspiration.
4.mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
Who would be argue that Baptists should NOT "seek an ecstatic religious experience"? That would be quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit.
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Google "charismatic baptist churches". You will see Baptist Churches that call themselves "Charismatic"
The question is, what does Charismatic mean to them.
Dictionary.com defines the word Charismatic as follows:
characterizing Christians of various denominations who seek an ecstatic religious experience, sometimes including speaking in tongues and instantaneous healing.
Dictionary.com defines "ecstasy" as follows:
1.rapturous delight.
2.an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling.
3.the frenzy of poetic inspiration.
4.mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
Who would be argue that Baptists should NOT "seek an ecstatic religious experience"? That would be quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit.
Think that there are indeed "baptacostalist" even here on the BB like me, its just that Charasmatics range from heretical doctrines held by Word of faith/prosperity/name it claim it groups to those who hold to more classic views likw Tongues required to be "baptised by HS, to some like me who hold to just the Gifts being operational today, NOT that there is a second act of Grace/tongues must be spoken modern day revealations etc!
Think that there are indeed "baptacostalist" even here on the BB like me, its just that Charasmatics range from heretical doctrines held by Word of faith/prosperity/name it claim it groups to those who hold to more classic views likw Tongues required to be "baptised by HS, to some like me who hold to just the Gifts being operational today, NOT that there is a second act of Grace/tongues must be spoken modern day revealations etc!
So as a professing bapticostelist (sp?) do you speak in tongues?
So as a professing bapticostelist (sp?) do you speak in tongues?
More in the line of discernment/exhortation, and have in the past done prophecy 2 times that came to pass...
Currently membership in a baptist church that holds no "official" position on the Gifts except you can hold either cease or today, just have to agree NOT to exercise the sign gifts in the local assembly!
Tom Butler
New Member
More in the line of discernment/exhortation, and have in the past done prophecy 2 times that came to pass...
Currently membership in a baptist church that holds no "official" position on the Gifts except you can hold either cease or today, just have to agree NOT to exercise the sign gifts in the local assembly!
Just curious, JF. You mention two prophecies you have made which came to pass. Have you ever made a prophecy which didn't come to pass?
More in the line of discernment/exhortation, and have in the past done prophecy 2 times that came to pass...
Currently membership in a baptist church that holds no "official" position on the Gifts except you can hold either cease or today, just have to agree NOT to exercise the sign gifts in the local assembly!
If you believe the sign gifts are for today, would you not be disobedient in not using them in the assembly? Would you not be quenching the Spirit?
If you are wondering where the large percentage of the old 1970s & 1980s era Charismatic’s disappear to just visit the 40-something Sunday School classes at medium to large Baptist Churches. There they are.
When you compare what was taught, practiced and tolerated in the Southern Baptist Churches in the 1970s to what is taught, practiced and tolerated in today's Southern Baptist Churches in my area you will see significant Charismatic finger-prints all over the place. Basically many charismatic’s and charismatic DNA has been assimilated into the Baptist Church to some extent as long as "speaking in tongues" stays in their closet
When you compare what was taught, practiced and tolerated in the Southern Baptist Churches in the 1970s to what is taught, practiced and tolerated in today's Southern Baptist Churches in my area you will see significant Charismatic finger-prints all over the place. Basically many charismatic’s and charismatic DNA has been assimilated into the Baptist Church to some extent as long as "speaking in tongues" stays in their closet
If you believe the sign gifts are for today, would you not be disobedient in not using them in the assembly? Would you not be quenching the Spirit?
No, as I am governed by higher principle of obeying the leadership God has ordained in my local church, and to exercise my christian liberty in Christ by NOT doing that among the bethren!
Just curious, JF. You mention two prophecies you have made which came to pass. Have you ever made a prophecy which didn't come to pass?
Those were the only 2 "prophecies" that involved giving foerth names/information of the situation not known to any as "public knowledge", and that was ONLY time ever be used by the HS like that, and to be honest, am VERY mindful of the scriptures on false prophecies/prophets!
Tom Butler
New Member
Those were the only 2 "prophecies" that involved giving foerth names/information of the situation not known to any as "public knowledge", and that was ONLY time ever be used by the HS like that, and to be honest, am VERY mindful of the scriptures on false prophecies/prophets!
Thanks. You were quite perceptive to recognize what was behind the question.
Another question please. Do you believe that discernment (or in your case the gift of prophecy) (or the gift of healing) is a permanent spiritual gift or is it given on a case-by-case basis?
Nothing hidden behind this question, just asking for your view.
My church had a visiting Indian missionary with an extremely strong accent. He made the joke that in some charismatic churches they couldn't understand a word he says but they responded to him with "amen brother" etc. to everything he said.
He said he thought they must have thought he was speaking in tongues..... :smilewinkgrin:
He said he thought they must have thought he was speaking in tongues..... :smilewinkgrin:
convicted1
Guest
Or must one be entirely within the ceaseanist camp on this?
I think the answer to this should be a resounding no. No traditional baptist church would hold to toungues, or anything that oozes charasmaticism.
Just because a donkey likes oates doesn't make it a horse.
Thanks. You were quite perceptive to recognize what was behind the question.
Another question please. Do you believe that discernment (or in your case the gift of prophecy) (or the gift of healing) is a permanent spiritual gift or is it given on a case-by-case basis?
Nothing hidden behind this question, just asking for your view.
Think that discernment is a type of wisdom/perception that the HS grants to allow some in the local body to be able to "spot" spiritual counterfeits/false teachers/doctrines trying to pass off themselves in the church!
Think Healing for today is ALL done by God, in response to prayer, and based upon His sovereign Will/Plans/purposes in the person life, do NOT hold to faith healers though today!
prophesy to my understanding would when the HS "moves on" someone in order to give them a message/words for guidance/wisdom, like when He spoke to tell disciples to set aside paul and Barnabus for His work!
Believe though that ANY and ALL things said MUST be checked by the Bible, as that is the only infallible source of revelation from God!
Think that sometimes all of us just might be given "insight/wisdom" for someone in a situation, and think that the HS does it thru us by bringing to mind scriptures and let us apply them to benefit others!
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I think the answer to this should be a resounding no. No traditional baptist church would hold to toungues, or anything that oozes charasmaticism.
Just because a donkey likes oates doesn't make it a horse.
So we baptists honor and uphold individual right to study and apply the Bible and its dictrines when it suites us only?
Think any local church can forbid them, but also that a baptist church can be open to it, or at least no formal point on it!
Can baptists Hold To Some Charismatic Theology?
Can they? Yes.
Do they? Yes.
Should they? No!
Steve
Can they? Yes.
Do they? Yes.
Should they? No!
Steve
Someone once said that where you have 3 baptists you have 4 opinions. In my lifetime, I haven't seen much difference.
Spurgeon lists 5 essential points, and I think they are valid points. In other areas I am open. I do not agree with charismatics, but it doesn't trouble me.
Cheers,
Jim
Spurgeon lists 5 essential points, and I think they are valid points. In other areas I am open. I do not agree with charismatics, but it doesn't trouble me.
Cheers,
Jim
Dr. Walter
New Member
Or must one be entirely within the ceaseanist camp on this?
In regard to continuing revelation one must be entirely within the cessantionist camp to be Biblical.
In regard to apostolic signs and wonders in distinction from latter day counterfit signs and wonders (2 Thes. 2:9) the key distinction is the word "lying".
Apostolic signs and wonders had specific purposes and one chief design - confirm true apostolic doctrine and practice. Counterfit apostolic signs and wonders in the latter days confirms FALSE DOCTRINE and PRACTICE.
The current movement is no respector of one's denominational or personal doctrine and practices. It confirms LIES and is rooted in the author of confusion.
In regard to continuing revelation one must be entirely within the cessantionist camp to be Biblical.
Agreed, as the Bible ALONE is the final/full/complete revelation from God to Man!
In regard to apostolic signs and wonders in distinction from latter day counterfit signs and wonders (2 Thes. 2:9) the key distinction is the word "lying".
believe that God can choose to do that today, do signs/wonders to confirm the Gospel, in areas where the Gospel is "brand new", but other than that, NOPE!
Apostolic signs and wonders had specific purposes and one chief design - confirm true apostolic doctrine and practice. Counterfit apostolic signs and wonders in the latter days confirms FALSE DOCTRINE and PRACTICE.
The current movement is no respector of one's denominational or personal doctrine and practices. It confirms LIES and is rooted in the author of confusion.
MOST of the present "Charsamatic" doctrines/practices/teacher aere heretical, especially those in Word of faith/proseperity/name it and claim it etc!
To me 3 broad groups in this area:
Classic pentacostals who hold to second act of Grace, Must speak in Tongues etc generally orthodex in other doctrines such as Bible/second coming/saved by grace alone/faith alone
Heretical wing WoF/prosperity/ modern day Apostles/prophets Hold that their doctrines new revelations, almost christian science in many regards!
Those like me, Evangelicals who are "open " to spiritual Gifts today, but NOT of a revelatory function, more to impart wisdom/exhortation/ etc in the local church!