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can catholics Go To God Directly In prayers?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I go directly to God in prayer. But I'm not alone. I'm in a christian community as well so we go to God together as well.
How about you sin against God, can you go straight to God and have Him fully restore you "on the spot" to fellowship once again?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
When I sin I do sin against God. But do I sin against just him? Am I in a vacuum? A poet once said "no man is an island unto himself". IT is true my actions affect other not just me and God which is why James says
Its important to confess to other christians. And God fully forgivess a man whenever he's repentant.
The early church had public confessions the whole congregation would hear everyones confession. Now think of that!
Yes, when you sin personally against another Christian, confess that to god and the other party, but NOT to those not sinned against!
And do you say here that you can be freely forgiven by god without going to confessional of the priest?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I confess both privately to God and publically to a priest. And I'm forgiven both times.
What does the priest benefit you, isn;t jesus already the great high priest for us?
No one could ever explain to me why I need to pray to anyone other than God. I can talk with the Father, with Jesus or with the Holy Spirit anytime and any place I choose to do so. So why would I ever pray to any other person????
Prayer is a worship which must be directed to God alone. Anything else would be at best wasted breath and at worst sin.
Prayer is a worship which must be directed to God alone. Anything else would be at best wasted breath and at worst sin.
So, ALL prayer is worship? I believe SOME prayer is worship, but I would like to see scriptural evidence that ALL prayer is worship.
Psalm 103:20 Praise the LORD, you his angels, you mighty ones who do his bidding, who obey his word.
Here is David invoking angels. I expect you will try to 'spin' this into something other than the obvious.
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Excellent question. I see no one has answered it.
jesus told us to pray ONLY to the heavenly father, andthe Apostles added in the name of jesus, in the power of the Spirit, as Jesus is the High priest/mediator, NOT earthly priests!
He never used the word ONLYand you know it. I know you can't wrap your Baptistic mind around the fact that David prayed to the angels and that this is scriptural evidence that not all prayer is worship, but it is what it is.
Don't be like Martin Luther, he wrote the word ALONE in where it didn't belong to try to prove his man-made doctrine.
Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus- Luke 16:19-31. Jesus portrays the rich man begging Abraham for Abraham's and Lazarus's intercession. Abraham and Lazarus are unable to help the rich man (verses 25-26), but the story does not teach that the rich man did anything wrong by requesting their help.
When Catholics pray to Mary and the saints, they are requesting the intercession of Mary and the saints before God, something that the Book of Revelation says that the saints do for us in heaven Rev. 5:8
When Catholics pray to Mary and the saints, they are requesting the intercession of Mary and the saints before God, something that the Book of Revelation says that the saints do for us in heaven Rev. 5:8
the bible ALWAYS directs us to pray to God, he alone is to be worshipped and praised and prayed too...
WHAT NT verses said that ANY Apostle prayed to Micheal/gabriel etc?
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Psalm 103:20 is not a prayer to angels.
I will take a stab at it Amy, but I'm really new to the Catholic faith, so after this post, I will leave it into better hands such as Thinkingstuff, Agnus Dei (Eastern perspective). The Lord wants to bring us forgiveness so much that he gave the apostles the power to forgive sins. This power given to the apostles and their successors does not come from within them but from God. We see this in many places in the NT where Jesus gave the apostles authority over unclean spirits, the authority to heal, the authority to raise people from the dead, and so on. God is the one that has chosen to use earthly priest to manifest his power and mercy.
In the words of Paul, "All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18). The apostles and their successors are merely ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor. 5:20
Hello Walter, nice to meet you. I have to ask how the Psalmist's statement could either be limited to an invocation or perhaps even viewed this way?
It would seem that his statement has a focus of obedience to the will of God.
Consider:
Psalm 103:19-22
King James Version (KJV)
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.
In v.19 we see that God's Kingdom has supreme power, and in vv.20-22 we see that all of creation is called to obedience, starting first with Angels and progressing to the Psalmist himself (v.22).
In other words, if this is viewed as an "invocation," it is not a call for the help of Angels, or ministers, or of himself, but a call to submit to the omnipotence of God and His Kingdom.
When we consider this passage, we see this:
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
(emboldening is just for the purpose of highlight...it is not meant to be rude or imply hostility on my part...lol...only for emphasis)
The point would seem to be that the Psalmist states a universal truth...God is omnipotent and sovereignly reigns despite the actions of Angels or men. The Psalmist exhorts obedience for both Angels and man, not leaving his own heart out of the equation, rather than supplication to Angels, men, or himelf.
So before driving this truth home he says...
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
...then he calls Angels, men, and himself...to submit to God in obedience.
Hope you understand this is just how this passage comes across to me, and it is submitted for your consideration.
God bless.
Since you believe in apostolic succession and have lumped all the powers given the apostles together, how many priests do you know that have raised people from the dead?
The Jews were right when they said:
Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
The Catholic in my day only need say a fervent "Act of Contrition" ..... Oh my God I am hearty sorry for having offended thee, & I detest all my sins, because of thy just punishments....but most of all, because they offend thee my God, who art all good & deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of thy grace, to sin no more & to avoid the near occasion of sin.
That keeps you out of hell....but, what if you get hit by a bus prior to saying it? :smilewinkgrin:
NO living mortal or dead saint can help, forgive, or save anyone. Prayers to dead saints get nowhere. NO one can forgive sins except God, and NO one (including priests) can say, "Your sins are absolved." NO mere mortal is a mediator between us and the Father; Jesus ALONE has that right. The word of God says so.