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The argument is a fairly good one, as it pertains to spiritual gifts. The gifts have ceased. </font>[/QUOTE]Nope.Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Your argument fails completely because you have to assume that the individual believer operates the gifts according to their own inspiration and will. The gifts of the Spirit are empowered by God and are only performed with the guidance and empowerment of the Spirit.
If God tells someone to go raise the dead, He will give them the power to do it. Period.
Nope.The gift of healing has ceased.
They could not do it either without direct command of Jesus and the empowerment of the Spirit.No person alive can heal "all that come to him," as the Apostles could do at certain times in their ministry.
I pointed out no such thing. (I’ve never heard of “the gift to raise the dead” unless you are referring to “the gift of miracles.”) I pointed out that the gifts are empowered and directed by God, and no one has the power to do exercise spiritual gifts outside the will of God. If God wills that I raised someone from the dead, I will be able to do it.No person today has the gift to raise the dead, as Baptist Believer pointed out.
The gifts will cease when Christ returns.This is in accordance with 1Cor.13:8 which teaches the cessation of tongues, prophecy, and revelatory knowledge.
Please show me scripture that clearly presents this view.The spiritual gifts were for the benefit of the first century Christians, and were used primarily to authenticate the message of the Apostles, that it was a message from God. The sign of an Apostle was that he was enabled by God to preach, accompanied with signs and wonders.
For what it is worth, I agree.Originally posted by Marcia:
As far as raising the dead, those claims of what was done in Africa have not been objectively verified at all and personally, I do not believe it. For one thing, Reinhart is a Word Faith teacher and they teach heresies. I posted a bunch of links on this topic on another forum -- it's in the discussion about "what is a heretic" in the Other Religions/Doctrines forum. Since we can't cross post, I don't think I can copy that here and it's really off-topic a bit, I guess. The WOF teachers like to make claims like this but can never provide verification to an objective 3rd party.
Why can't you answer that question to your own satisfaction.Originally posted by tamborine lady:
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DHK,
you said: If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever--then why doesn't He speak to you through a burning bush like He did to Moses??
He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. But that doesn't confine him to using the same methods that he used both in the Old Testament or in the first century, as you implied. He is the same in his nature--that He is God. That doesn't change. His attributes doesn't change not. He is God that doesn't lie (for example). But He does use different methods. He spoke to Moses face to face, and in a burning bush. He spoke to Balaam through the mouth of a donkey. Does he speak to you that way? Please tell me. I might even come down to witness the event.Are you going to tell me now that Jesus is NOT the same,"yesterday, today and forever" ??
Please explain the statement you made.
Wrong again. But it is a convenient way for so-called faith healers to get out of healing people and in the most possible cruel way blame the "victim" for their lack of faith, saying the fault is all theirs for not being healed. It is a cruel, cruel thing to do, for a person who comes in hope to be healed. I can't think of anything more despicable. These guys ought to be taken out and shot, for defrauding the public. The sad thing is that you agree with their doctring.The reason that ALL are not healed today is because of unbelief! Just as it was in Jesus day. He didn't do many miricles at one point because of the unbelief of the people.
I believe that miracles and the such happens, but not in the way that they did in the New Testament. Have you seen any one walk on water lately?That is exactly why you never see miracles these days. It is simply because you don't believe in them. You have to have proof that they exist first!
Again, it is matter of what kind of miracle does kind perform today? In what way. Does God heal all that come to the so-called faith healer? No. He doesn't heal that way any more, and you don't have any evidence that he does.God is not going to try to prove anything to you when you wouldn;t believe it anyway.
You haven't provided any evidence that they haven't ceased. I am still waiting for that.No matter how many times you say the gifts have ceased, that does not make it so!!
Yes.I have a question, could the gift of decerning the spirits be used to detect more than demons?
I don't have time to go through all of your post music4Him, but I would like you to consider this one. Sometimes we have to read closely what the context is. Jesus could not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Right?Originally posted by music4Him:
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It was the faith healers problem in this case.....
but what about in this situation?
Matt.13:54-58 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Doesn't the "faith" factor flows both ways. I have gotten healed before without going to the elders of the church to pray for me. Just by simplely asking in Jesus name to be healed and beliving for my healing. Didn't Jesus say we can ask anything in Jesus name and he will do it?
No, spiritual warfare, discussed in Eph.610-18 and in variuos other passages, such as 2Cor.10:3-5, has nothing to do with the spiritual gifts that have ceased, and can be (and have been)demonstrated to have ceased.Originally posted by music4Him:
And now back to Demons being detected today~![]()
Thank you LadyEagle and Marcia, I was thinking that it was more than just the bad ones (demons that is). LOL
We definetly for sure need those 9 gifts of the Spirit for todays times.
Music4Him
All of the above are gifts--supernatural gifts.Originally posted by music4Him:
Then so DHK you are saying that all 9 gifts of the Spirit have ceased?
1Cor.12:8-10 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.Then DHK what about this verse 1Cor.2:14 well acually read 1Cor.2:1-16 and tell me what you think. It also say to be spiritually minded in (Rom.8:6). BTW did you look in the OT at some of the OT people that seemed to have some of the same Spirit as mentioned in 1Cor.12? Elisha and Elijah and some of those prophets that prophesised, Solomen and he reciving wisdom and knowledge......
Well let me know what you come up with.