Can demons become real people?

[Mark_13]

Its occurred to me several days ago when first seeing this thread, verses like the following:

(John 6:70) Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

(John 8:44) "You are of father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own for he is a liar and the father of lies.

But I didn't mention them, as I was sure some one would chime in and patronizingly explain to me that Jesus didn't mean they were real devils, which of course seems apparent on one level, but the fact the Jesus would repeatedly say things like this makes you wonder if he was not implying something more fundamental and real about the nature of humans in general, i.e. possibly that Satan was involved in the creation process somehow, or maybe instead that - by default - humans, aside from redemption, are indistinguishable from demons in the eyes of God. Just a thought.

 

[Mark_13]

Maybe Christ just means that these people are effectively functioning as devils as they are carrying out the will of the devil. Otoh, if our fundamental state is opposition to God, how is that different from demons.

Jesus even says to Peter "Get thee behind me Satan". So maybe all these statements by Christ are hyperbolic, or metaphoric, but given the number of times he says things like this, if he were responding to the OP, he would also presumably answer "yes", if even metaphorically.

 

[DaChaser1]

As far as the topic of the thread goes, I believe that demons are disembodied entities;
whereas, angels have a body and can, under certain circumstances, materialize.
As well, we have a large number of angels (could be 1/3 of all angels) that "gave up" their spiritual bodies and became "earthbound":
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, [Tartarus] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; - 2 Pet 2:4
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [oikētērion], he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6

I believe that these fallen angels are being "held in reserve" for the Great Tribulation
and are described in Revelation 9 coming out of the "bottomless pit" (ie: Tartarus) where
they have undergone metamorphosis since their first visitation in Genesis 6.

BOTh are spirit beings, angels can temp take on a physical form/apperance, demons ALWAYS need to possess a body to do such!

 

[Darrell C]

This is a interesting question. I know that demons can posses false converts and the unsaved. They can influence Christians, and according to some theologians (Erwin Lutzer & Tim Layhe) demons can appear as actual people, just as what you see when you watch a certain episode in the X-files Season 8. I am not sure of all the passages that Lutzer and Layhe use to back up that theology. So the question is can they be people?

Once I was out street witnessing and encountered a man that was not normal. His eyes were not normal, and something inside of him really wanted to attack me, but he was held back by himself, or the angels that protect me. I have witnessed to thousands of people, and he was different. Its been about 2 years since I met that man, if he really was a man, I am not sure as demons can appear to be people in some cases. Or can they?



John

Hello E6589, just a quick response: as we are told that at times we entertain Angels unawares, Angels must have the capability to manifest in a physical form by which we mistake them as being human. And whether it is an actual manifestation or they by their power merely convince us of that, what we perceive is seen as physical.

My guess is that you have been gifted with discernment of spirits, and that perhaps you did recognize and identify what you saw, which I would say probably was a demon.

I believe that those gifted with evangelistic gifts in all probability often have this gift also.

On a side-note: I am also an X-files fan (forgive me...lol), though the theological capability of the writers is...very poor...lol.

God bless.

 

[beameup]

BOTh are spirit beings, angels can temp take on a physical form/apperance,

I too have heard that "general statement" repeated many, many times over the last half-century.

However, if you compare the two verses that contain the word oikētērion it becomes a bit clearer:
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house [oikētērion] which is from heaven: - see 2 Cor 5:1-6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [oikētērion],
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6
The fallen angels permanently "gave up" what we as believers aspire to.


For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, [Tartarus]
and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
I tied these verses into Genesis 6,
and finally Revelation 9.

 

[DaChaser1]

I too have heard that "general statement" repeated many, many times over the last half-century.

However, if you compare the two verses that contain the word oikētērion it becomes a bit clearer:
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house [oikētērion] which is from heaven: - see 2 Cor 5:1-6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [oikētērion],
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6
The fallen angels permanently "gave up" what we as believers aspire to.


For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, [Tartarus]
and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
I tied these verses into Genesis 6,
and finally Revelation 9.

.
My understanding on this is that those lost angels/demons currently being reserved for final judgenent are those that went after "strange flesh" in genesis, and God has sealed them away until their judgement day...

others demons still allowed fre, and they still need to possess bodies in order to manifest physically!!

 

[Darrell C]

I too have heard that "general statement" repeated many, many times over the last half-century.

However, if you compare the two verses that contain the word oikētērion it becomes a bit clearer:
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house [oikētērion] which is from heaven: - see 2 Cor 5:1-6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [oikētērion],
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6
The fallen angels permanently "gave up" what we as believers aspire to.


For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, [Tartarus]
and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
I tied these verses into Genesis 6,
and finally Revelation 9.

You might be interested to know that those that view men as pre-existing spirits also take the view that oiketerion speaks of the spiritual body.

The problem they have is that before Christ there is given in scripture no indication that there was one before Christ to have the particular "oiketerion" which He now has.

While men in glorified bodies will be in some manner like unto Angels, Angels will not be like glorified men.

They also have disturbing views concerning men, Angels, and God...all being elohiym, meaning, like certain cults, we are "spirit brothers." Some remove God from this relationship, that they may seem more sound, but in scripture we see a clear division between men, Angels, and God.

While demons left their proper habitation, and we groan in expectation of our heavenly house, I think it important not to try to make the two beings one and the same.

God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

I was the one that told that story, and I reported it just as it was told me by a very godly pastor. I have no reason not to believe him.

We have many accounts in scriptures of angels appearing as men in the bible, such as the two angels who lodged with Lot and ate dinner with him. They also grabbed hold of Lot and pulled him inside when the men of Sodom were pressing Lot against his door. If good angels can materialize as men, why can't fallen angels?

Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

Can angels materialize as men? YES.

Excellent response. This means that Hank Hanegraaf is wrong in his book the covering and Erwin Lutzer is right in his book The Serpent of Paradise.

 

[evangelist6589]

Hello E6589, just a quick response: as we are told that at times we entertain Angels unawares, Angels must have the capability to manifest in a physical form by which we mistake them as being human. And whether it is an actual manifestation or they by their power merely convince us of that, what we perceive is seen as physical.

My guess is that you have been gifted with discernment of spirits, and that perhaps you did recognize and identify what you saw, which I would say probably was a demon.

I believe that those gifted with evangelistic gifts in all probability often have this gift also.

On a side-note: I am also an X-files fan (forgive me...lol), though the theological capability of the writers is...very poor...lol.

God bless.

Oh yes I would agree with you as it is poor and not to be trusted. However that one episode got me thinking.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Can demons become real people?

Well...this is quite odd. I read that and immedetly my ex wife popped into my mind.

 

[DaChaser1]

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Some take this verse as meaning Satan and the demon angels can appear in any form. If they can appear in any form to people open to those things could it be they can appear a flying object that is unidentified?

Of course this says satan and his messengers can appear as messengers of light and ministers of righteousness.

Think that context supports more idea of he would have his 'spokesmaen" in churches, pastors who spit out "damanable heresies", some even denying the Lord whose death paid for their own sins!

 

[Amy.G]

Think that context supports more idea of he would have his 'spokesmaen" in churches, pastors who spit out "damanable heresies", some even denying the Lord whose death paid for their own sins!

Are you saying the Lord's death paid for the sins of the false teachers?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Are you saying the Lord's death paid for the sins of the false teachers?

Hummm if I didn't know better Amy sounds Calvinistic.

 

[DaChaser1]

Are you saying the Lord's death paid for the sins of the false teachers?

IF they were elected by God, yes, but since their fruit shows that they were not the saved by His death upopn the Cross....

 

[Amy.G]

Hummm if I didn't know better Amy sounds Calvinistic.

Scared ya didn't I? :laugh:

The reason I ask the question is because I have always assumed (or been taught, not sure which) that the false teachers were bought by Jesus. But after reading the verse lately, it could mean that Jesus bought the people who were being deceived, not the false teachers. It all depends on who "them" is referring to.

2 Peter
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

If Jesus bought them (false teachers) then they would be saved, not damned. Something isn't adding up here. :laugh:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Scared ya didn't I? :laugh:

The reason I ask the question is because I have always assumed (or been taught, not sure which) that the false teachers were bought by Jesus. But after reading the verse lately, it could mean that Jesus bought the people who were being deceived, not the false teachers. It all depends on who "them" is referring to.

2 Peter
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

If Jesus bought them (false teachers) then they would be saved, not damned. Something isn't adding up here. :laugh:

I knew you had an explanation! :sleeping_2:

 

[Amy.G]

I knew you had an explanation! :sleeping_2:

Why are you sleeping? Did I bore you? I do seem to have some Calvinist tendencies lately.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Why are you sleeping? Did I bore you? I do seem to have some Calvinist tendencies lately.

oh no sister that just meant I had no worries about you....your very stable. Like Jesus asleep when a storm was rockin! :wavey: I hear ya on the cal thingy both sides have interesting view points but one of my strongest passages I read is the Lord says "you did not choose me rather I choose you". John 15:16 Hummm and I thought it was my bright idea!:laugh: