Can dispensationalists and covenantalists go to the same church?

[nuck chorris]

Specifically a baptist church that holds to BFM 1963 or a stripped down version of it? At least, on the web site, the doctrinal statement is minimal.

It seems like there would be a lot of room for various positions. Could a dispensational, a covenantal, a reformed... all be members?

Preaching does not seem to give away any one system as far as pastor's preference.. though being in the same town as a major dispensational school, people in Sunday school have an obvious bent toward dispensationalism?

To what degree can these church members live together?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Specifically a baptist church that holds to BFM 1963 or a stripped down version of it? At least, on the web site, the doctrinal statement is minimal.

It seems like there would be a lot of room for various positions. Could a dispensational, a covenantal, a reformed... all be members?

Preaching does not seem to give away any one system as far as pastor's preference.. though being in the same town as a major dispensational school, people in Sunday school have an obvious bent toward dispensationalism?

To what degree can these church members live together?

Easy… they simply ignore one another when it comes to doctrinal differences and focus on Christ spelled out in scripture. Now I’m not an advocate but if there are no churches in your particular area that teaches scripture without the dispensational nonsense, then you have to put up with it, while keeping your eyes pealed for a more accommodating environment.

 

[John of Japan]

Yes, I'm sure they could go to the same church, as long as the Covenant people don't keep insulting the Dispensationalists with cracks like "dispensational nonsense." Mutual respect, that's the key.

Anyway, welcome to the Baptist Board!

 

[tyndale1946]

Specifically a baptist church that holds to BFM 1963 or a stripped down version of it? At least, on the web site, the doctrinal statement is minimal.

It seems like there would be a lot of room for various positions. Could a dispensational, a covenantal, a reformed... all be members?

Preaching does not seem to give away any one system as far as pastor's preference.. though being in the same town as a major dispensational school, people in Sunday school have an obvious bent toward dispensationalism?

To what degree can these church members live together?

Look at me I'm on here... I've been hearing different viewpoints in the twenty years I've been here but I roll with the punches... I believe a certain way and others don't... But I have a strong filter and post what I do believe and let others stand in their belief... Children of God are Children of God, lest we disagree and say because they don't agree with me, they're not... I serve my God my way and you serve God yours and to me that's all that matters... If brethren who worship in this faction start bickering with one another, I want no part of it... I go to my wife's church now and they are a loving, peaceful group and their style of worship is totally different, than the way I was brought up but God's Children are everywhere and none are better than the rest... Belief is personal to each individual and schisms have divided us... God alone, in the person of Jesus Christ, is the Savior of divided children... Brother Glen

Welcome to the BB!

 

[JonC]

Specifically a baptist church that holds to BFM 1963 or a stripped down version of it? At least, on the web site, the doctrinal statement is minimal.

It seems like there would be a lot of room for various positions. Could a dispensational, a covenantal, a reformed... all be members?

Preaching does not seem to give away any one system as far as pastor's preference.. though being in the same town as a major dispensational school, people in Sunday school have an obvious bent toward dispensationalism?

To what degree can these church members live together?

Yes, they can go to the same church.

They can live together to the degree that they submit their understanding to Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, I'm sure they could go to the same church, as long as the Covenant people don't keep insulting the Dispensationalists with cracks like "dispensational nonsense." Mutual respect, that's the key.

Anyway, welcome to the Baptist Board!

 

[JD731]

Can dispensationalists and covenantalists go to the same church?


It depends on whether the assembly in question believes there is purpose for the church that transcends mere fellowship and is a place we learn about God and his ways.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Can dispensationalists and covenantalists go to the same church?


It depends on whether the assembly in question believes there is purpose for the church that transcends mere fellowship and is a place we learn about God and his ways.

So how do you do that with different doctrines and beliefs being taught? Wouldn’t that be confusing?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, they can go to the same church.

They can live together to the degree that they submit their understanding to Christ.

Of course that applies to an area which provides no alternatives. If there are alternatives then go to the church that best suits you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Look at me I'm on here... I've been hearing different viewpoints in the twenty years I've been here but I roll with the punches... I believe a certain way and others don't... But I have a strong filter and post what I do believe and let others stand in their belief... Children of God are Children of God, lest we disagree and say because they don't agree with me, they're not... I serve my God my way and you serve God yours and to me that's all that matters... If brethren who worship in this faction start bickering with one another, I want no part of it... I go to my wife's church now and they are a loving, peaceful group and their style of worship is totally different, than the way I was brought up but God's Children are everywhere and none are better than the rest... Belief is personal to each individual and schisms have divided us... God alone, in the person of Jesus Christ, is the Savior of divided children... Brother Glen

Welcome to the BB!

Out of curiosity, how do you process sitting with those who’s teaching you disagree with? It appears that you are capitulating. As you know, I live in an area that has 17 RC Churches to one Baptist church ( and their closing that one )! So should I start going back to a Catholic Church for fellowship sake? And I have alternatives… I can drive 200 miles to go to the church that I best affiliate with, or just watch them each week on my IPad or just give up altogether and not go anywhere. What’s your opinion.

 

[JD731]

So how do you do that with different doctrines and beliefs being taught? Wouldn’t that be confusing?

My response was intended to imply a "no" answer. It is my view that dispensationalists (Fundamentalists) and Reformed believers have a different view of what the New Testament refers to as "the faith." This term is in the NT 42 times and describes what must be believed to be saved. Both groups can potentially be wrong about it but both cannot be right.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My response was intended to imply a "no" answer. It is my view that dispensationalists (Fundamentalists) and Reformed believers have a different view of what the New Testament refers to as "the faith." This term is in the NT 42 times and describes what must be believed to be saved. Both groups can potentially be wrong about it but both cannot be right.

I would not agree to either Reformed and/or Fundamentalist theology but that’s me. I was visiting with a independent Baptist Church a while back and the temporary minister there got into an arguement with me regarding my beliefs which was more allied to the congregation at the time and this guy attempted to deride me for it so I ratted him out and he was required to leave. I do not play around when it comes to scriptures taught in church… which leads me to the question, What is the definition of church? Some will say it’s a community center with a lot of hand holding and placating truth, others would espouse denomination and their traditions, most have no scripture direction and are really hostile to it and some are very driven by politics. I personally can not fellowship with these groups… I just prefer to stay home because they offer nothing to my and my families spiritual growth.

Now no church is perfect, however if they are not even trying to get to a place where they don’t even address a scriptural truth, then I stay away from them. There are far too many out there peddling unity while not contributing to the kingdom of heaven. I’m very particular in that regard when evaluating Churches.

 

[JonC]

Of course that applies to an area which provides no alternatives. If there are alternatives then go to the church that best suits you.

I don't know that I fully agree. We should not look for churches that agree with our understanding but look for churches that are "alive" (churches that are doing Kingdom work) and where we can be of use.

I do get that there are certain doctrines that are important enough to keep one from joining a congregation.

But arguments over how we should view redemptive history (covenant theology vs Dispensationalism.....or which framework in covenant theology or in Dispensationalism) is leaning on one's own understanding a bit too much.


That said, you do have a very good point as well.

I would never consider attending a congregation that insists on one of those philosophies as I would consider them to be a dead or a dying church (they would fall into a category described in Revelation ... most likely having lost their "first love").

As I look around at congregations and philosophical views it seems that the ones that are dead or dying are the churches that elevate their own understandings and philosophies to the level of Scripture.

So it may depend on how the congregation holds their philosophies.

 

[tyndale1946]

Out of curiosity, how do you process sitting with those who’s teaching you disagree with? It appears that you are capitulating. As you know, I live in an area that has 17 RC Churches to one Baptist church ( and their closing that one )! So should I start going back to a Catholic Church for fellowship sake? And I have alternatives… I can drive 200 miles to go to the church that I best affiliate with, or just watch them each week on my IPad or just give up altogether and not go anywhere. What’s your opinion.

Well you know after my first wife Charlotte passed after 30 years, I still had the care of my 23 year old disabled son Travis... The church I was raised in closed its doors, when I was 57 and it had been my church since the age of 7, even though I joined at the age of 22... My goal was not me, my goal was a life for my son... I fell in love with Pam, a Christian of a different church and belief and took my belief with me... Though I had to move 120 miles away, Pam and I married and I took Travis with me... God works in mysterious ways and we soon found a group home and he has had a life there, in May it will be twenty years... Way back when I asked the question, God I could have been with my people, did I make the right move?... I got my answer at a weekly Friday night prayer group I attended with Pam... She took me off to the side and said a friend hers and our Vera's husband Len, was diagnosed with a terminal illness and for some unknown reason she wanted me to talk to him, he was terrified of dying... So in private I sat across from Len as he poured his heart out to me with tears rolling down his cheek, feeling he wasn't even worthy to be in Heaven, telling me of all his misdeeds in life... The belief I took with me when I was married took hold and I explained none of us are Len... And I related to him the doctrine of total Sovereign Grace... Tears of terror, became tears of joy and with an angelic smile, he thanked me... Vera told me when Len died he had to most peaceful look on his face... There have been many times I have questioned the move I made and others may question it too but the results have been a miracle as you know, and I don't work miracles... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I’m not c

Well you know after my first wife Charlotte passed after 30 years, I still had the care of my 23 year old disabled son Travis... The church I was raised in closed its doors, when I was 57 and it had been my church since the age of 7, even though I joined at the age of 22... My goal was not me, my goal was a life for my son... I fell in love with Pam, a Christian of a different church and belief and took my belief with me... Though I had to move 120 miles away, Pam and I married and I took Travis with me... God works in mysterious ways and we soon found a group home and he has had a life there, in May it will be twenty years... Way back when I asked the question, God I could have been with my people, did I make the right move?... I got my answer at a weekly Friday night prayer group I attended with Pam... She took me off to the side and said a friend hers and our Vera's husband Len, was diagnosed with a terminal illness and for some unknown reason she wanted me to talk to him, he was terrified of dying... So in private I sat across from Len as he poured his heart out to me with tears rolling down his cheek, feeling he wasn't even worthy to be in Heaven, telling me of all his misdeeds in life... The belief I took with me when I was married took hold and I explained none of us are Len... And I related to him the doctrine of total Sovereign Grace... Tears of terror, became tears of joy and with an angelic smile, he thanked me... Vera told me when Len died he had to most peaceful look on his face... There have been many times I have questioned the move I made and others may question it too but the results have been a miracle as you know, and I don't work miracles... Brother Glen

I am not criticizing you Glen, I’m trying to understand your motivation. Because I know you as a sincere Prim it always was a question I did not want to broach, I know you have your reasons. You never indicated you joined the SDA movement so I’m thinking you are with Pam and anyway, none of my business… I know your heart & so does Christ and so does Pam.

Look you know my own struggles with church, many of my own RC family were horrified but I had to make a decision to follow Christ First to the best of my ability and not to shirk my responsibility to God and my family. I sincerely believe in the Primitive Baptists and my struggle to find a church is a constant challenge cause there ain’t no PB Churches up north… but God is with me so I’m in his Grace. All is well my brother.

 

[JonC]

Well you know after my first wife Charlotte passed after 30 years, I still had the care of my 23 year old disabled son Travis... The church I was raised in closed its doors, when I was 57 and it had been my church since the age of 7, even though I joined at the age of 22... My goal was not me, my goal was a life for my son... I fell in love with Pam, a Christian of a different church and belief and took my belief with me... Though I had to move 120 miles away, Pam and I married and I took Travis with me... God works in mysterious ways and we soon found a group home and he has had a life there, in May it will be twenty years... Way back when I asked the question, God I could have been with my people, did I make the right move?... I got my answer at a weekly Friday night prayer group I attended with Pam... She took me off to the side and said a friend hers and our Vera's husband Len, was diagnosed with a terminal illness and for some unknown reason she wanted me to talk to him, he was terrified of dying... So in private I sat across from Len as he poured his heart out to me with tears rolling down his cheek, feeling he wasn't even worthy to be in Heaven, telling me of all his misdeeds in life... The belief I took with me when I was married took hold and I explained none of us are Len... And I related to him the doctrine of total Sovereign Grace... Tears of terror, became tears of joy and with an angelic smile, he thanked me... Vera told me when Len died he had to most peaceful look on his face... There have been many times I have questioned the move I made and others may question it too but the results have been a miracle as you know, and I don't work miracles... Brother Glen

I believe if we follow God's leading we will more often than not find ourselves setting aside some personal understandings and ideas in order to be used by God in areas that may not suit our preferences.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is our criteria, not our preference in music, our ideas about how we should categorize God's actions throughout Scripture, our philosophical views regarding man's will and God's will, etc.

I am blessed to have read the account of God using you where He led you. We often look for echo chambers, but rarely are a benefit within those walls. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[tyndale1946]

I’m not c

I am not criticizing you Glen, I’m trying to understand your motivation. Because I know you as a sincere Prim it always was a question I did not want to broach, I know you have your reasons. You never indicated you joined the SDA movement so I’m thinking you are with Pam and anyway, none of my business… I know your heart & so does Christ and so does Pam.

Look you know my own struggles with church, many of my own RC family were horrified but I had to make a decision to follow Christ First to the best of my ability and not to shirk my responsibility to God and my family. I sincerely believe in the Primitive Baptists and my struggle to find a church is a constant challenge cause there ain’t no PB Churches up north… but God is with me so I’m in his Grace. All is well my brother.

I didn't feel you were, I just wanted to set the record straight... I have had this thought, what would have happened if I choose a different direction?... I had this burning feeling this is where I am suppose to be... I'm with God's people, now others will say well they don't believe like I do... Question?... Where is the source of LOVE?... There have been so many miracles in my life I don't know where to start and you and your wife Pam are one... I stay true to my convictions but I keep those convictions more or less to myself and have frequented site and have read articles and heard sermons, from Prims I have knowledge of and some I don't... As you know ours is a small world compared to other denominations... When you are ingrained in a practice for over 50 years its hard to let go... I let go of the practice... I NEVER!... Let go of the doctrine... Just learned how the other side worships... Things I thought were curses were in disguise blessings and after losing my first wife to Kidney Cancer, when my second wife got Breast Cancer, I thought God was going to take her too... As you know he didn't and set her on a mission, and help others go thru it with her Cancer Care and Compassion Group which she started, and your wife benefited from... When my first wife died, after wedded bliss for 30 years... I remember what I said it my roaring sorrow!... GOD I'M THROUGH... YOU TAKE OVER!.. And did he ever!... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

I believe if we follow God's leading we will more often than not find ourselves setting aside some personal understandings and ideas in order to be used by God in areas that may not suit our preferences.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is our criteria, not our preference in music, our ideas about how we should categorize God's actions throughout Scripture, our philosophical views regarding man's will and God's will, etc.

I am blessed to have read the account of God using you where He led you. We often look for echo chambers, but rarely are a benefit within those walls. Thank you for sharing this.

Yeah Jon with brings to mind Saul who was a preying man (who I'm sure the disciples heard of) to Paul a praying man (that the disciples questioned the Lord, if he knew what he was doing?... All I know is I'm still around and the Lord is not done with me yet... Just waiting for the next adventure in life... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, I'm sure they could go to the same church, as long as the Covenant people don't keep insulting the Dispensationalists with cracks like "dispensational nonsense." Mutual respect, that's the key.


Anyway, welcome to the Baptist Board!

can you prove to me it isn’t?

 

[37818]

can you prove to me it isn’t?

Specify it.
I am a Dispensationalist. I personally agree there is some dispensational nonsense. Just as I think the denial of premillennialism is a nonsense.