Can dispensationalists and covenantalists go to the same church?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Relevance?

Anyway, the only one I know like that was Tennessee Temple, and it subsequently went under. It forgot who its alumni were. If a school is Fundamentalist and graduates a bunch of young Fundamentalists, and goes SBC, it's alumni will object.

Providing they are told. Anyway, I’m glad I’m a Primitive Baptist. No worries about eschatology, schools etc. Just pure scripture.

 

[JD731]

Let me ask a direct question to the board, “ What’s the primary purpose of church?

It has two purposes;

1) To glorify Jesus Christ - Re 4:11
2) To manifest the wisdom of God to earth and heaven. Eph 3:1-12 (This one I will quote and underline a salient part) 1 Cor 2:4-10. I suggest you read this one.

Ep 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

 

[canadyjd]

To spread the gospel.

1. Primary purpose: worship God in Spirit and Truth.

2. Secondary purposes: Several.

peace to you

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't know that I fully agree. We should not look for churches that agree with our understanding but look for churches that are "alive" (churches that are doing Kingdom work) and where we can be of use.

I do get that there are certain doctrines that are important enough to keep one from joining a congregation.

But arguments over how we should view redemptive history (covenant theology vs Dispensationalism.....or which framework in covenant theology or in Dispensationalism) is leaning on one's own understanding a bit too much.


That said, you do have a very good point as well.

I would never consider attending a congregation that insists on one of those philosophies as I would consider them to be a dead or a dying church (they would fall into a category described in Revelation ... most likely having lost their "first love").

As I look around at congregations and philosophical views it seems that the ones that are dead or dying are the churches that elevate their own understandings and philosophies to the level of Scripture.

So it may depend on how the congregation holds their philosophies.

Interesting use of words, philosophies, doctrines, theologies, etc. Reminds me of my RC mother’s comment to people who would question her belief system, “You go to your church and I will go to mine.” Maybe I should revisit that philosophy? Thanks Mom.

 

[JonC]

Interesting use of words, philosophies, doctrines, theologies, etc. Reminds me of my RC mother’s comment to people who would question her belief system, “You go to your church and I will go to mine.” Maybe I should revisit that philosophy? Thanks Mom.

Doctrine just means teaching.
Theology is the study of God.
Philosophy is the study of the nature of kowledge and reality.

Theory includes (uses) philosophy and is used to build doctrine.

An old quote....ish (can't recall the actual quote) explained that any study of God that is not directed to Christ is philosophy rather than theology (because we can only know of God as explained through Christ).

 

[AVL1984]

Easy… they simply ignore one another when it comes to doctrinal differences and focus on Christ spelled out in scripture. Now I’m not an advocate but if there are no churches in your particular area that teaches scripture without the dispensational nonsense, then you have to put up with it, while keeping your eyes pealed for a more accommodating environment.

Oh yeah...I could really see them going to church together with attitudes like yours
Geesh! Get right with God... and your dispensationalist brethren.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh yeah...I could really see them going to church together with attitudes like yours
Geesh! Get right with God... and your dispensationalist brethren.

Nope…. I don’t like them. I purposely don’t go to any church where there is a dispensationalist.

 

[AVL1984]

Nope…. I don’t like them. I purposely don’t go to any church where there is a dispensationalist.

That's just plain foolishness. Sad! Really sad, and unchristian to boot.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's just plain foolishness. Sad! Really sad, and unchristian to boot.

All I’ve ever seen from them is manipulation & brainwashing so I view them as cultish. If your affiliated with, please stay away from me, okay.

 

[AVL1984]

All I’ve ever seen from them is manipulation & brainwashing so I view them as cultish. If your affiliated with, please stay away from me, okay.

You'll have to block me... your loss, and no sweat off

All I’ve ever seen from them is manipulation & brainwashing so I view them as cultish. If your affiliated with, please stay away from me, okay.

All I’ve ever seen from them is manipulation & brainwashing so I view them as cultish. If your affiliated with, please stay away from me, okay.

You seem to be the one that's cultish... I've NEVER seen what you accuse them of, so I doubt that you are being honest. Guess you'll have to block me.... your loss, and tbh, no sweat off my brow.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You'll have to block me... your loss, and no sweat off


You seem to be the one that's cultish... I've NEVER seen what you accuse them of, so I doubt that you are being honest. Guess you'll have to block me.... your loss, and tbh, no sweat off my brow.

I’ve no problem with that.

 

[JD731]

Here is a dispensational change that has not occurred yet but will soon.

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

We learn from our study of scripture that the furnace of fire is the great tribulation prophetically called in 17 prophecies in 12 Bible books "the day of the Lord." It was previewed by Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in Daniel's prophecy. It is a purifying judgement.

These tares are growing together but at the time of harvest the angels are gathering them into bundles TO BE BURNED after the wheat is gathered into the barn.


Here is the parable that he is explaining.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Look at the order. The rapture of the church which God is forming in this world (age 165 aion). Then the burning of the bundles. There will be a few saved folk (wheat) that are mixed in with the tares and here is the command to them.

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Denominational bundles with strange teachings is what we see as the end of this age draws near. Much of it is represented here on this forum

@ 2Cor 13:5. We must be sure we are born again. The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven is exclusive to this age between the cross and resurrection and the tribulation when God will judge the sin of the nations and the world and purify it in preparation for the kingdom age.

I would not advise being an amillennialist at that time if you happen to be alive when this judgement begins.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here is a dispensational change that has not occurred yet but will soon.

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

We learn from our study of scripture that the furnace of fire is the great tribulation prophetically called in 17 prophecies in 12 Bible books "the day of the Lord." It was previewed by Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in Daniel's prophecy. It is a purifying judgement.

These tares are growing together but at the time of harvest the angels are gathering them into bundles TO BE BURNED after the wheat is gathered into the barn.


Here is the parable that he is explaining.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Look at the order. The rapture of the church which God is forming in this world (age 165 aion). Then the burning of the bundles. There will be a few saved folk (wheat) that are mixed in with the tares and here is the command to them.

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Denominational bundles with strange teachings is what we see as the end of this age draws near. Much of it is represented here on this forum

@ 2Cor 13:5. We must be sure we are born again. The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven is exclusive to this age between the cross and resurrection and the tribulation when God will judge the sin of the nations and the world and purify it in preparation for the kingdom age.

I would not advise being an amillennialist at that time if you happen to be alive when this judgement begins.

You are not in any position to advise anyone especially regarding eschatology wise. You do know what opinions are like, right.

 

[JD731]

You are not in any position to advise anyone especially regarding eschatology wise. You do know what opinions are like, right.

My view on the topic of the thread is that Covenanters and Dispensationalists generally have no agreement on anything fundamental to the Christian faith, except maybe names of deity and of some words of scriptures. Certainly we do not agree as to the meaning of the words and we have a fundamental disagreement on the nature of God, how he saves a sinner, what sinner he will save, when he saves them, and a host of other considerations.

Covenanters will not say that one must believe their understanding of the nature of God and their teaching on salvation as a fundamental of the faith as do dispensationalists. Covenanters broaden the gate and who can really know who has been selected in eternity past to be saved. This selection guarantees that their salvation will not fail. Therefore ignorance of those who disagrees with them on their doctrines, among whom are as dispensationalists, are not in any real danger of finally being lost because selection for salvation is the primary function of God in saving a sinner. The cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ has it's importance in covenant theology but not the primary importance. Selection is the primary doctrine.

Dispensationalists are always in danger of being banned from forums like this because of our narrow view of salvation. It is a strait gate that leads to life and few there be that find it, according to our approach to the scriptures. There are certain things that must be believed for one to be saved and just merely claiming that one is a member of the elected is not good enough. Wearing a tag is not salvation. Reformed doctrines are far removed from what I as a dispensational fundamentalist Christian considers the true doctrines of the faith.

Now, to define my terms, I am responding as though the meaning of a covenanter is a reformed believer. If you have intended it to be defined some other way then I might need to adjust my comments some. So my answer to the op is that a believer who is a dispensationalist by his hearts conviction is not likely to attend a covenanter church. There are less convictions about the matter on the other side probably.

There are worlds of differences between faith groups. It matters what one believes and teaches. Eternity is at stake and the way to the Father's house is narrow.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My view on the topic of the thread is that Covenanters and Dispensationalists generally have no agreement on anything fundamental to the Christian faith, except maybe names of deity and of some words of scriptures. Certainly we do not agree as to the meaning of the words and we have a fundamental disagreement on the nature of God, how he saves a sinner, what sinner he will save, when he saves them, and a host of other considerations.

Covenanters will not say that one must believe their understanding of the nature of God and their teaching on salvation as a fundamental of the faith as do dispensationalists. Covenanters broaden the gate and who can really know who has been selected in eternity past to be saved. This selection guarantees that their salvation will not fail. Therefore ignorance of those who disagrees with them on their doctrines, among whom are as dispensationalists, are not in any real danger of finally being lost because selection for salvation is the primary function of God in saving a sinner. The cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ has it's importance in covenant theology but not the primary importance. Selection is the primary doctrine.

Dispensationalists are always in danger of being banned from forums like this because of our narrow view of salvation. It is a strait gate that leads to life and few there be that find it, according to our approach to the scriptures. There are certain things that must be believed for one to be saved and just merely claiming that one is a member of the elected is not good enough. Wearing a tag is not salvation. Reformed doctrines are far removed from what I as a dispensational fundamentalist Christian considers the true doctrines of the faith.

Now, to define my terms, I am responding as though the meaning of a covenanter is a reformed believer. If you have intended it to be defined some other way then I might need to adjust my comments some. So my answer to the op is that a believer who is a dispensationalist by his hearts conviction is not likely to attend a covenanter church. There are less convictions about the matter on the other side probably.

There are worlds of differences between faith groups. It matters what one believes and teaches. Eternity is at stake and the way to the Father's house is narrow.

Are you familiar with the Primitive Baptists? If not than I suggest you look into it. In short, it’s a third platform that rarely gets reviewed.

 

[AVL1984]

I’ve no problem with that.

Then have at...