Can God be sovereign while men have free will?

[Rippon]

I've heard numerous "Calvinists" here argue that those of us who believe men do have a free choice in salvation undermine the sovereignty of God. However, many of these same people believe that Adam and Eve had a free choice while in the Garden.

If mankind having a free choice in salvation undermines God's sovereignty, then why doesn't Adam and Eve's free choice likewise undermine his sovereignty?

In fact, if we have the ability as believers to freely choose between one option or another, how does that not also undermine God's sovereignty?

In other words, to acknowledge free choice of man in any circumstance while maintaining that God is Sovereign concedes the point that it IS possible for man to have a free choice in relation to his salvation while God maintains his sovereignty. So, why do some Calvinists insist we are undermining God's sovereignty in this way? Isn't that inconsistent?

I have before me a library book ;Mormonism For Dummies by Riess and Bigelow. I'l cite a snip from page 43.

"God knows everything there is to know and has complete control of this universe, although he limits his own power somewhat by allowing his children freedom to choose their own actions and consequences."

 

[Winman]

Third, the Bible NEVER speaks of man having free-will.

Yes it does.

Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

It doesn't get clearer than this, the Lord said men should give a sacrifice of "his own voluntary will". What does "his" mean? What does "own" mean? What does "voluntary" mean?

And the actual word "freewill" is found is found 15 times in the scriptures. The word willingly is found 2 times.

Ezra 3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

In Ezra 3:5 the scriptures have both the words "willingly" and "freewill".

And Jesus showed that any man can "will' to do God's will. Not just some men, any man.

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Anybody who says the scriptures do not talk about men having a free will does not know much scripture.

 

[Rippon]

biblical Quotations From The CEV

Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

It doesn't get clearer than this, the Lord said men should give a sacrifice of "his own voluntary will". What does "his" mean? What does "own" mean? What does "voluntary" mean?

"... Lead it to the entrance of the sacred tent, and I will let you know if it is acceptable to me."

And the actual word "freewill" is found is found 15 times in the scriptures. The word willingly is found 2 times.

So what? You need to read the context of these prooftexts of yours. They have nothing to do with classical freewill teaching.

Ezra 3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.




In Ezra 3:5 the scriptures have both the words "willingly" and "freewill".

"...Every offering the people had brought voluntarily was also presented to the Lord."

Again, this kind of verse has nothing to do with what you are so desperately tying to prove. And you depend too much on the KJV wording to establish your points.

Anybody who says the scriptures do not talk about men having a free will does not know much scripture.

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Skandelon]

I have before me a library book ;Mormonism For Dummies by Riess and Bigelow. I'l cite a snip from page 43.

"God knows everything there is to know and has complete control of this universe, although he limits his own power somewhat by allowing his children freedom to choose their own actions and consequences."

First, how does that proves that it is a false statement? If those mormons believe it then it must be wrong? I guess Glenn Beck is wrong about all his political opinions because he is a Mormon, right? False doctrine is truth mixed with error...you assume that everything they teach must be false because they are a cult. Why?

Second, you don't believe that you choose your own actions as a believer Rippon? Do you believe Adam chose his own actions? Please explain.

 

[Winman]

So what? You need to read the context of these prooftexts of yours. They have nothing to do with classical freewill teaching.

So, when the scriptures say a man has "his own voluntary will" (which they do), God did not understand the man-made classical teaching of freewill?

I would bet God does not care what men think, or how they define freewill. He said men have their own free and voluntary will, and that is good enough for me. I will trust the scriptures over man-made doctrines any day of the week.