Matt Janes
Member
Where does the bible say that?
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Can God rescue a soul from hell?
- Thread starter Matt Janes
- Start date
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
There is no rules God has to follow that declare he is forbidden from rescuing a soul from hell.
God can toss paper into a fire, wait till it turns to Ash, then turn it back into paper. He made man out of dust after all.
I discovered that the scriptures that say all shall be saved outnumber the scriptures that speak of eternal damnation.
So who is being biblical...the one who speaks of eternal damnation or the one who believes all shall be purified? Both.... But the one who says all shall be saved has more scriptures to support him/her.
Here are a few:
John 12:32 ESV /
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Peter 4:6 ESV /
For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.
Isaiah 25:6-8 ESV /
On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the Lord has spoken."
Yes, sinners are tossed into a lake of fire, but God is a consuming fire scripture says. God speaks of purifying his people as gold is refined in a furnace. God could use the lake of fire to purify and remold people. God can do whatever he wants to.
An intercessor can even get God to change his mind.
Exodus 32:14 Yahweh repented of the evil which he said he would do to his people.
There are no rules God has to follow. An intercessor can stop God from doing what he says he will do. It's biblical.
If a mother in heaven is sad that her son is in hell , and she begs God night and day for her son to be purified, and her son truly repents, there aren't any rules that tell God he can't answer her prayers. Hells doors are locked perhaps, but God has the keys.
Respectfully, you are misusing the scriptures. Anything is possible with God, but the Bible doesn't even hint at salvation from hell.
When you see the word "all" in the Bible, you should not assume that it means every single person who ever lived. Because if you do, you are going to have to explain away the verses that teach otherwise. It's not a matter of having the most verses on one side of the argument. It's about scripture in light of scripture.
Here is the explanation of the Greek word 'pas':
The KJV translates Strong's G3956 in the following manner: all (748x), all things (170x), every (117x), all men (41x), whosoever (31x), everyone (28x), whole (12x), all manner of (11x), every man (11x), no (with G3756) (9x), every thing (7x), any (7x), whatsoever (6x), whosoever (with G3739) (with G302) (3x), always (with G1223) (3x), daily (with G2250) (2x), any thing (2x), no (with G3361) (2x), not translated (7x), miscellaneous (26x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
I.individually
A. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
II.collectively
. some of all types
The Bible also teaches that people are selected for eternal life before the foundation of the world.
It's my opinion that Christians should talk about the gospel, but not in terms of speculating who is a Christian and who is not. A funeral is not the place to condemn someone. It's in God's hands. If you are asked directly then perhaps John 6:37 is in order.
John 6:37English Standard Version (ESV)
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
We can't know everything about God, but the Bible teaches that the secret things belong to God.
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If someone needs to believe a lie before he believes in Jeus, I don't think that's helpful. But who other than God knows whether someone is saved or not? Maybe the Buddhist mother called on Christ in the moments before she died?
'Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?' (Genesis 18:25). Of course He will but He will do so according to His perfect righteousness, justice and wisdom, not yours or mine. We place our unsaved loved ones in the hands of God who will do right.
Suffering in this lifetime does not merit the possibility of salvation after death. Scripture is clear that belief is inclusive of repentance from the flesh (from the desires of this world, our physical wants and needs). Consider the reason Paul gives for the "perfection" of Christ's status as High Priest. Once the body dies it is too late to repent from the flesh.
I am not arguing that men do not suffer in this life. I saw mass graves where Muslims were tortured at the hands of Christians in Bosnia. Jews suffered and died in Nazi concentration camps. But compare the Holocaust to accounts of Christian martyrdom as the Church was persecuted and you will see two very different things happening. The reaction of the Holocaust is humanistic, an ideology to which you appeal, sorrowing in unjust death. But Christians who were hung on posts and burned alive, rejoicing they were counted worthy, points to life.
I understand your empathy, and I share that love for mankind. One of my mentors in literature, who became a good friend, was Buddhist. He was a kind person but died without knowing Christ. Scripture is clear that we must believe in this lifetime, follow Christ by crucifying the "flesh", made spiritually "alive". We are appointed to die and then the Judgment. No "second chances" as the entire premise of the Logos becoming flesh is based on redemption from this world. And it is sad because one could imagine that humanistic love my friend possessed being made into something worthy of so much more. Too often "Christians" seem to lack such a love. But what you are arguing against is Christianity itself. If Christians taught that people could be saved after this lifetime, after the possibility of repentance and biblical belief has passed, after the possibility of "following Christ" is gone, then they no longer can be called "Christian".
It does say.
- Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Do you think ANY of us deserve heaven?
Matt Janes
Member
It doesn't say that a person cannot repent after death prior to being judged. Many people that reject the Bible or don't believe in it, do not realize what they are doing. When I was an atheist I did not know that I was rejecting God. God will take this into account. I'm not saying everybody is saved. But God will take into account that a lot of people have been brainwashed and didn't realize what they were doing.
Matt Janes
Member
None of us deserve heaven, but I don't think a good Jew who follows their conscience and loves God deserves to be tortured for all eternity either
Do they love the Messiah God provided in order for them to be saved?
Matt Janes
Member
I think many of them would if they were fully enligtened. Many of them have been brainwashed and raised to believe what they do.
Matt Janes
Member
Yes
And why do you believe that?
Matt Janes
Member
I believe souls continue living after death. It is just the conviction of my heart
One day you will get past the "Can God make a rock so heavy He can't pick it up?" type arguements that you daily present.There is no rules God has to follow that declare he is forbidden from rescuing a soul from hell.
God can toss paper into a fire, wait till it turns to Ash, then turn it back into paper. He made man out of dust after all.
I discovered that the scriptures that say all shall be saved outnumber the scriptures that speak of eternal damnation.
So who is being biblical...the one who speaks of eternal damnation or the one who believes all shall be purified? Both.... But the one who says all shall be saved has more scriptures to support him/her.
Here are a few:
John 12:32 ESV /
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Peter 4:6 ESV /
For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.
Isaiah 25:6-8 ESV /
On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the Lord has spoken."
Yes, sinners are tossed into a lake of fire, but God is a consuming fire scripture says. God speaks of purifying his people as gold is refined in a furnace. God could use the lake of fire to purify and remold people. God can do whatever he wants to.
An intercessor can even get God to change his mind.
Exodus 32:14 Yahweh repented of the evil which he said he would do to his people.
There are no rules God has to follow. An intercessor can stop God from doing what he says he will do. It's biblical.
If a mother in heaven is sad that her son is in hell , and she begs God night and day for her son to be purified, and her son truly repents, there aren't any rules that tell God he can't answer her prayers. Hells doors are locked perhaps, but God has the keys.
The rich man and Lazarus.
people live on forever....
- Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
- Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
All souls?
you cant be no further from the truth with this statement. God does have "rules" he has to follow. God is no better than his "WORD" when his word says it, then God is bound to do it.
Titus 1:2 (KJV)
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
There is lots of things God "cannot" do (he cant lie, he cant sin etc..)
Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
with that in mind please read:
Revelation 20:12-15 (KJV)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.