Can I learn Greek?

[preachinjesus]

Its an hour drive, but I believe you can audit Greek Classes at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. This would save you a lot of cash...

This was actually going to be my exact recommendation after looking at the OP's profile. Most SBC seminaries provide plenty of evening options for lay individuals looking to grow in their knowledge. From my interaction with both lay students and professors...faculty at seminaries have a special place in their heart for dedicated lay students who want to grow.

You can't underestimate the value of sitting in a room with a scholar and going through the tasks they lay out.

 

[Salty]

... Personally Ive tried to learn German with great difficulty. ... Please advise as I'm still trying.

I spent 8 years in Germany, but I never made an effort to learn the language. (now I wish I had) As I lived on a US Army base, there was little motivation.

As far as a recommendation, I would say, buy a good shortwave radio and tune into German broadcasts - especially Christian programs
Family radio (you may not agree with his tribulation doctrine - but remember the purpose is to learn German)

CBN has a German program

Or you can find some streaming on the net

Hope this helps a bit.

Salty

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I spent 8 years in Germany, but I never made an effort to learn the language. (now I wish I had) As I lived on a US Army base, there was little motivation.

As far as a recommendation, I would say, buy a good shortwave radio and tune into German broadcasts - especially Christian programs
Family radio (you may not agree with his tribulation doctrine - but remember the purpose is to learn German)

CBN has a German program

Or you can find some streaming on the net

Hope this helps a bit.

Salty

Thanks.....I have been toying with spending a month in Germany with my wifes Dad's relatives. They are from Stuttgart & my thinking is to immerse myself. Also get those Rosetta Stone CD's prior to going there. The interesting thing my father in law told me is the Southern dialect is allot different than the north (Berlin) portion of Germany & a neighbor who is from the country also confirmed it....anyway I will work that out.

Thanks again

PS: Germany is the leading economic country in Europe today. Bear that in mind if your thinking about moving to Europe (as I am)

 

[ReformedBaptist]

This was actually going to be my exact recommendation after looking at the OP's profile. Most SBC seminaries provide plenty of evening options for lay individuals looking to grow in their knowledge. From my interaction with both lay students and professors...faculty at seminaries have a special place in their heart for dedicated lay students who want to grow.

You can't underestimate the value of sitting in a room with a scholar and going through the tasks they lay out.

You know, this may be helpful with my distance learning through WTS. I could audit Greek at RTS, and complete the coursework for my seminary....yay

 

[daveme7]

I have recently become very interested in learning Greek, specifically Koine Greek. I am 43 years old, have a college degree (20 years ago), but have never studied any foreign language at all.

Is it possible for someone like me to accomplish this? I have been looking at Bill Mounce's program http://www.teknia.com/

Anyone have any advice or encouragement?

It has been awhile since I have been here so hopefully this will go fine as my biggest problem not being used to these types of Forums.

Mounce is pretty good but others have spoken correctly-lots of memorizing. Parsons hoes have a really good Hebrew and Greek tutor program(both sold seperately but canbe bought together.) That is a very good tool. Also, some have been resorting to taking little kids songs for say the tenses. The big deal about that is when hearing someone preach or teach-we can discern. The other side-in song there is no real filter system for music. Do not get me wrong on this, give me one day and can have someone siunging the most vile songs after one day of playing this. Saying that-it can workfor the good whether memorizing words or even scriptures. We have tiny hears not perceptable visually in our ears as these vibrate which transmit sounds toyour brain going through a few other ear parts andinto the Neuro synapses which transmit to the part of the brain which makes your mind understand.

There are alternatives especially when you do not understand-the power of the Google search. Also, have seen on some websites and youtube some decent videos. I would reccomend contacting someone you know who know this already. A mutual friend online would look at my stuff and give feedback for the point-he is a professor and in his element. That and a big dose of humble pie. A different person I know who has a doctrate and wrote a book trying to take a Hebrew tense quoting in John 3 trying to make the Hebrew tense applicable in a NT quote. Not good. All this because he has a doctrate and took a few classes on the languages.

I hope this helps
God bless
David Emme

 

[TomVols]

No its not. The four Greek professors that I have had contact with, just point you to chapters in the book (various syntactical and grammar texts), over such questions.

Information is information. Spending near 1000 dollars per Greek class, is wasteful and unnecessary, outside of the situations listed above. Some of the greatest Greek teachers and theologians in history were self-taught (and they didn't even have the resources that we do!!).

1. Get better professors. Thankfully mine never did that.
2. No textbook has ever talked back to me when I asked it a question. Thankfully my Hebrew and Greek profs did.
3. You are correct in your basic premise. You can self-learn a language. Do not make the mistake, however, of confusing self-motivation with aptitude. There are plenty of good helps out there for people to learn the languages. But if one wants to go the classroom route, they should not think they are being cheated. They can learn as well as the self-taught.

 

[TomVols]

If you would like a very good book that can be used for self learning, Ray Summers published a book back in 1950 titled, Essentials of New Testament Greek. It was published by Broadman Press.

Through this book you can learn all the Greek you need to study the New Testament.

Summers taught at Baylor University in Texas. The book may still be available.

Cheers,

Jim

I used this in one of my classes. It has strengths and weaknesses. Mounce is quickly becoming the gold standard. I do like the "Greek for the Rest of Us" and "Hebrew for the Rest of Us" for the basics.

Learn both. The OT is the Word of God, too!

 

[John of Japan]

1. Get better professors. Thankfully mine never did that.
2. No textbook has ever talked back to me when I asked it a question. Thankfully my Hebrew and Greek profs did.
3. You are correct in your basic premise. You can self-learn a language. Do not make the mistake, however, of confusing self-motivation with aptitude. There are plenty of good helps out there for people to learn the languages. But if one wants to go the classroom route, they should not think they are being cheated. They can learn as well as the self-taught.

Well said! :thumbs:

 

[Havensdad]

1. Get better professors. Thankfully mine never did that.

Why? Their suggestions were helpful, answered my questions, and was MUCH better than just giving me an answer I would forget two hours later...they taught me how to find the answers myself.

2. No textbook has ever talked back to me when I asked it a question. Thankfully my Hebrew and Greek profs did.

They are called "Glossaries," "Subject indexes" and "Scripture indexes." One thing my professors have taught me, is that you can find an answer to any question, on your own, if your willing to put in the time.

3. You are correct in your basic premise. You can self-learn a language. Do not make the mistake, however, of confusing self-motivation with aptitude. There are plenty of good helps out there for people to learn the languages. But if one wants to go the classroom route, they should not think they are being cheated. They can learn as well as the self-taught.

I am not attacking the classroom. I am attacking the idea that it is necessary. Some people on this board think that the rules governing the Greek language are to be found nowhere but in the minds of Seminary professors, which can only be accessed by hefty tuition. This is false. In fact, I believe for some people the self taught route is BETTER...for the reasons I mentioned. And I believe ANYONE with motivation and average learning ability CAN learn Greek without a single class, if they are willing to put in the work.

 

[John of Japan]

Mounce is pretty good but others have spoken correctly-lots of memorizing.

It's really not possible to learn any foreign language without lots of memorizing. The disadvantage to learning koine Greek is that the student doesn't converse in it and can't find a modern Greek who talks like that. When you learn a foreign language in another country, you naturally learn some words simply by hearing them in context. But anyone who thinks they can master Greek with any program at all without lots of memorization is in for a disappointment.

There are no shortcuts to learning a foreign language. I remember many years ago I found a little textbook, Learn Japanese in 30 Days. I still laugh about that!

 

[Havensdad]

It's really not possible to learn any foreign language without lots of memorizing. The disadvantage to learning koine Greek is that the student doesn't converse in it and can't find a modern Greek who talks like that. When you learn a foreign language in another country, you naturally learn some words simply by hearing them in context. But anyone who thinks they can master Greek with any program at all without lots of memorization is in for a disappointment.

There are no shortcuts to learning a foreign language. I remember many years ago I found a little textbook, Learn Japanese in 30 Days. I still laugh about that!

Agreed. Personally, I like the deductive approach used by Mounce; I HATE inductive language programs! I WISH someone would come up with a decent deductive Hebrew program (Miles and Van Pelt's Text is NOT up to par with Mounce's in terms of quality and organization).

As far as using the language, I have found that reading the scriptures, casually, in a good Greek Interlinear, helps to keep the Greek firmly entrenched in your head.

 

[John of Japan]

Agreed. Personally, I like the deductive approach used by Mounce; I HATE inductive language programs! I WISH someone would come up with a decent deductive Hebrew program (Miles and Van Pelt's Text is NOT up to par with Mounce's in terms of quality and organization).

Alas, textbooks in Japanese are extremely limited. I use Machen which is the standard here, but there is another by a Japanese scholar that's fair.

As far as using the language, I have found that reading the scriptures, casually, in a good Greek Interlinear, helps to keep the Greek firmly entrenched in your head.

Right, use it or lose it. The student that graduates thinking he's got Greek but then doesn't maintain his skills will lose it, "sure as shootin'" like my Texan relatives say.

Simply reading is good. I recommend the Analytical Greek NT of Timothy and Barbara Friberg for the beginner or intermediate, even though it's not my preferred Byzantine.

Doing one's own translation is also excellent. This forces you to work at it. "The Havensdad NT Translation." :thumbs:

 

[TomVols]

Miles and Van Pelt's Text is NOT up to par with Mounce's in terms of quality and organization

Thank you. I was starting to think I was the only crazy one I've yet to find the best Hebrew for self-study.

Their suggestions were helpful, answered my questions, and was MUCH better than just giving me an answer I would forget two hours later...they taught me how to find the answers myself.

The tenor of your post seemed derisive. I had wonderful profs who were able to explain things four or five different ways when the book only had one. So it helped those who needed it. No one would deny a book or prof can only take you so far. Well, almost......

One thing my professors have taught me, is that you can find an answer to any question, on your own, if your willing to put in the time.

This may be. But some professors are so good at stimulating thought that you ask questions you didn't know to ask. You just made my point, actually.

Further, what if the book you are using is substandard? I'm right now re-reading a Christian philosophy text that is squarely in that category. Its glossary is threadbare. Its discussion is very weak. But the professor back in the day could say in one sentence what the author would try to say in a page. The guy using this book on his own would be lost. That said, some professors are poor and couldn't teach a fish how to swim. But fortunately I've never had too many bad experiences with professors.

I am not attacking the classroom. I am attacking the idea that it is necessary. Some people on this board think that the rules governing the Greek language are to be found nowhere but in the minds of Seminary professors, which can only be accessed by hefty tuition. This is false. In fact, I believe for some people the self taught route is BETTER...for the reasons I mentioned. And I believe ANYONE with motivation and average learning ability CAN learn Greek without a single class, if they are willing to put in the work.

At times it sure comes off like you attack it.

I'm not arguing with your premise. I'm as sympathetic to your views as anyone; I just think the arguments could be made better. Some people are better self-learners. Some people are better in a classroom. The classroom has benefits while self-study has others. Everyone CAN learn ANYTHING without a class. Everyone CAN learn ANYTHING with a class. It's when you start ruling out one or the other that one gets logically untenable.

Isn't it funny that, so many who learned on their own (like Broadus, Spurgeon, et.al.,) started schools?

 

[John of Japan]

Another great resource for reading Greek is The Greek New Testament for Beginning Readers: The Byzantine Greek Text & Verb Parsing. You can see this on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/dp/3941750240/?tag=baptis04-20. It looks excellent.

Here is the product description:

"The Greek New Testament for Beginning Readers" contains a number of valuable features: • A readable, non-italic font for the main body of Greek text • Footnotes containing brief definitions of words occurring less than fifty times • Word frequency counts to help the reader decide if a word should be memorized • Footnotes showing how to parse all verbs occurring less than fifty times • An alphabetized list of all other verb forms with parsing information • A lexicon showing proper names and all words occurring fifty times or more."