Can man repent on His own, Without the Aid Of The Holy Spirit?

[DaChaser1]

Based on this non sequitur...you don't know much.

he did though give the prevalent view among those who hold that we were NOT made spiritual dead by fall, that we are are dead in sins, and that being creastures of sin and wrath, cannot in and by ourselves 'will" to come to God!

They would instead affirm that man is a free moral being, still vasn freely decide to reject/accept for Jesus, as we still ahve 'enough" residing in our natures to do that!

 

[DaChaser1]

If non-Calvinists really believe that men could repent on their own, as we are so often accused of believing, then why aren't we also accused of being anti-evangelistic? After all, apparently we believe they can repent and believe in Christ all by themselves so what is the use in spreading the gospel?

By the way, I'm still waiting on an answer to my question: Is the gospel considered a gracious work of the Holy Spirit? Yes or No?

is it the words of the Gospel printed down in Bible, or is it the hostorical facts they represent?

is it the HS work to confirm the truth of the Cross and who jesus was to sinners, to enable them to be able to by faith eceive jesus and be saved?

As jesus Himself said, its the work of the HS to produce new birth in us...

Unless the HS Himself opens my heart/mind to be able to respond even to the Good news about jesus, how can I repent/believe in "just " hearing/reading the Gospel?

 

[DaChaser1]

1st let me clarify....I wasnt saying you were snide....I was asking you to perhaps not view my own question back to brother JF as snide.

Also, though that question, from my prospective anyway, I would like to see JF really qualify it down to a fine point for an intellectual discussion. I wont go further with this publicly as not to insult him. none the less, I'd personally like to see JF embellish on it further than he has.

just asking if others see repentance/faith as something that we can produce out of our sinful natures 'naturally!"

That they are potential able to be produced, as part of the condition that we are all in before being saved by God!

 

[webdog]

he did though give the prevalent view among those who hold that we were NOT made spiritual dead by fall, that we are are dead in sins, and that being creastures of sin and wrath, cannot in and by ourselves 'will" to come to God!

They would instead affirm that man is a free moral being, still vasn freely decide to reject/accept for Jesus, as we still ahve 'enough" residing in our natures to do that!

You don't understand either. Denial of augustinianism doesn't equate to pelagianism.

 

[MB]

Acts 17:30-31

30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness [v]through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men [w]by raising Him from the dead.”

God has commanded all men to repent, now I take it as it says "all mankind everywhere", thus either

1. mankind has the innate ability to repent
2. or God enables each and every man to repent.

Amen Brother
MB

 

[MB]

or,
1.God has commanded all men everywhere to repent...but they have no desire to being dead in Adam,and rebels against God

2. God while not being obligated to, but solely of His own grace and mercy ,enables a multitude of sinners to repent[but not everyman ever born] according to His eternal design.
3' These sinners being given a new heart are made willing to repent and believe savingly are drawn savingly to Jesus,not one is lost.
4. The others left to themselves...never desire to repent and suffer the just consequence of their sins

Still trying to prove a inability to respond to the gospel. It's just not in scripture. So why believe in your own reasoning? When all you have to do is believe in God's.
MB

 

[DaChaser1]

Still trying to prove a inability to respond to the gospel. It's just not in scripture. So why believe in your own reasoning? When all you have to do is believe in God's.
MB

Don't know, All can say is that unless the Lord opens our minds/heart to receive jesus, we prfer to stay in the dark!

 

[DaChaser1]

You don't understand either. Denial of augustinianism doesn't equate to pelagianism.

Do you have inherit in you the means to repent and provide saving faith or not?

 

[Iconoclast]

Still trying to prove a inability to respond to the gospel. It's just not in scripture. So why believe in your own reasoning? When all you have to do is believe in God's.MB

I do MB....right here;

Psalm 14

1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Paul understood this...

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is what I believe MB...how about you.

 

[Iconoclast]

Based on this non sequitur...you don't know much.

Based on this question you posted...I say I know just enough:thumbs::laugh:

Originally Posted by webdog
Tell us who believes man can repent on HIS OWN ability

Anyone who denies spiritual death in the fall...has a wounded Adam with full ability...he just needs the right information..he can do what the Apostle paul said He cannot do.....

Does this qualify as a non sequitur to you.....or it enabled you to answer with a quip...instead of re-thinking the issue:laugh:

 

[Skandelon]

is it the words of the Gospel printed down in Bible, or is it the hostorical facts they represent?

is it the HS work to confirm the truth of the Cross and who jesus was to sinners, to enable them to be able to by faith eceive jesus and be saved?

As jesus Himself said, its the work of the HS to produce new birth in us...

Unless the HS Himself opens my heart/mind to be able to respond even to the Good news about jesus, how can I repent/believe in "just " hearing/reading the Gospel?

Did you answer the question? I can't tell. Is the gospel a powerful gracious work of the spirit or not? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Can man repent on His own, Without the Aid Of The Holy Spirit?

Nobody in this world is outside the influence of The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is everywhere, omnipresent, just as God the Father and God Jesus Christ is.

The Holy Spirit is dealing with every person on this earth, giving every person an opportunity to be one of the "whosoeverwlls". Praise the Lord!

I like how the great bible teacher Zola Levitt once put it...

Gods grace covers this earth like the atmosphere. We just swim around in it all the time.

 

[JesusSaves!]

Not here to debate or argue, just tell you that I heard a voice that I had never heard before when the gospel was preached to me. God spoke to my heart and showed me I was naked and in my sin and shame. Several times, I rejected the master. I got to a place that I wanted to hear from Heaven. I would pray and pray and still nothing. Then, I was going through the motions singing near the piano during service lost and undone, the Holy Spirit began to tug at my heart. I said now is not the time, and the drawing power began to weaken. So, I told the Lord to hold on and I was coming to him, when I knelt down the way he had asked and humbled my heart before him, Jesus saved my soul and the burden of sin and shame was rolled away. This is how it happened to me, nothing I did but except him when he called my name. My the Lord Bless and Strengthen Each One to Shine to this Lost and Dieing World.

 

[Skandelon]

Did you answer the question? I can't tell. Is the gospel a powerful gracious work of the spirit or not? A simple yes or no will do.

raying: A yes or no, will do.

 

[DaChaser1]

raying: A yes or no, will do.

it is, but its NOT the sole agency the Lord uses to bring His elect unto faith in Christ and eternal life!

he uses the work of the HS internally to prepare the sinner that God has chosen to save to be enabled to hear the Gospel, turn toChrist and get saved!

the elect have both Spirit and Bible at work, and thus they will urn to Christ and get saved...

The Lost have the Gospel taught/preached to them, but reject it, as in natural states dead/deaf/dumb to being affected by it!

 

[Skandelon]

That is not what I asked. You can hold that it is not the "sole" work of God, but first at least answer the question:

Is the gospel a powerful gracious work of the Spirit or not?

YES or NO?

 

[webdog]

That is not what I asked. You can hold that it is not the "sole" work of God, but first at least answer the question:

Is the gospel a powerful gracious work of the Spirit or not?

YES or NO?

I believe he said it was..."but". A good attorney would at that point reply "thank you, your honor, no further questions?

This should put to bed his pejoratives of our view being a self-salvationist, seeking God on our own apart from His grace and work first. I wouldn't bet on it though...

 

[Alive in Christ]

Jesus saves...

Not here to debate or argue, just tell you that I heard a voice that I had never heard before when the gospel was preached to me. God spoke to my heart and showed me I was naked and in my sin and shame. Several times, I rejected the master. I got to a place that I wanted to hear from Heaven. I would pray and pray and still nothing. Then, I was going through the motions singing near the piano during service lost and undone, the Holy Spirit began to tug at my heart. I said now is not the time, and the drawing power began to weaken. So, I told the Lord to hold on and I was coming to him, when I knelt down the way he had asked and humbled my heart before him, Jesus saved my soul and the burden of sin and shame was rolled away. This is how it happened to me, nothing I did but except him when he called my name. My the Lord Bless and Strengthen Each One to Shine to this Lost and Dieing World.

Thank you for posting your salvation testimony. You might be interested to know that your testimony is almost exactly the same as my testimony, except that I was not in a church building.

 

[DaChaser1]

I believe he said it was..."but". A good attorney would at that point reply "thank you, your honor, no further questions?

This should put to bed his pejoratives of our view being a self-salvationist, seeking God on our own apart from His grace and work first. I wouldn't bet on it though...

said that it is, but it is NOT the only/sole agent the Lord uses to bring one to being saved!

Its the Gospel and the working of the HS to both bring the elected sinner to faith in Christ!

 

[Skandelon]

I believe he said it was..."but". A good attorney would at that point reply "thank you, your honor, no further questions?

This should put to bed his pejoratives of our view being a self-salvationist, seeking God on our own apart from His grace and work first. I wouldn't bet on it though...

:laugh:

This is one of the major issues of this debate. Cals seem to forget that the NT wasn't written 1000 years AFTER Christ came to earth, the Holy Spirit came down like fire, the Gospel was sent to be proclaimed into all the world by divinely appointed apostles and the church was established.

They seem to forget that THOSE are the MEANS God uses to seek and save the Lost and they take passages which describe the condition of mankind without all these gracious provisions of God and think they equally apply to those who have been graced by the powerful Gospel appeal, the conviction of the HS and the influence of Christ's bride.