Can people in Heaven see us here on Earth?

Well, as Helen points out, it refers to the OT saints in the previous chapter.

Where I would disagree with Helen is that it means that the OT saints are watching us. I think it means that they are witnesses of something to us--their lives TESTIFY to us.

Notice verse 1 of chapter 11:

"By it [faith] the elders received a good testimony.."

Verse 4:

"...by faith, he [Abel] still speaks...."

Verse 5:

"...before he [Enoch] was taken he had this testimony..."

Verse 39:

"...And all these, having received a good testimony through faith...."

The lives of those who went before us are good testimonies to us of enduring faith in times of trial, and they urge us on to endure to the finish of the race we have to run. And the greatest testimony of all is the one of our Lord himself, "who for the joy set before Him endured the cross."

 

Well, I think if she is watching, she is watching with a perspective on things that we don't have. She will see, even though we who are suffering down here can't, that God is bringing about a good end through our suffering. We see through a glass darkly, but she no longer does.

[ September 11, 2002, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

Joshua,

I accept your apology. Here is a little food for thought.

"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, Is the man who deceives his neighbor, And says, 'I was only joking!' (Prov. 26:18-19, NKJV)."

When you make an apology and turn around and defend the thing you have apologized for it somehow lessens the effect. However, I don't want to hijack this thread so let's just let it go.

[ September 12, 2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

Revelation 7:9, After this I looked and there
before me was a great multitude that no
one could count, from every nation,
tribe, people and language, standing before
the throne and in front of the Lamb.
They were wearing white robes and
were holding palm branches in their hands.
...
17. For the Lamb at the center of the
throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Why do the Church Age saints in heaven have
tears in their eyes? Do they arrive that way
and get their tears wiped once?
Or do they in heaven have opportunity to observe
their friends and loved ones on earth.

Yesterday i saw people in New York City and
Pennslvinia and Washington DC express their grief.
I never got out of Central Oklahoma. Yet i knew
what these people were doing and how they
were expressing their grief. Yes, it occassionaly
brought tears to my eyes.

Is it like this in heaven?
Will we be able to get news reports of our
loved ones on earth?

 

I am sure the only focus in Heaven is singing to the Lord, and praising our Father God.

Sherrie

 

Thankful asked

"On what do you base the opinion...some correspondence/communication between heaven and earth....And that there are tears in heaven?

I am just seeking information here. I known that we can not know for sure unless there are scriptures to support this."

I base this upon the fact that our prayers reach heaven, that our tears are not wiped away until after the millennium, also Psa 56:8, that God intervenes in human affairs, that the tribulation saints know their revenge had not yet been exacted upon the earth, that Samuel was called from the dead to chastise Saul, that the rich man in Luke 16 pled for his brothers upon the earth. It just seems to me there must be some awareness of what goes on here. We shall be able to remember all that went on before we died, it would then seem to me to be a greater burden if we are in the dark about what happens after. I agree with those who say in effect that our focus will be primarily upon the worship of the Lord, but without being too dogmatic about it, given that the whole Scripture centre's around God's relationship to man, heaven reaching down to earth that this cord will not necessarily be broken unto the very end of time when all is done and dusted and eternity proper dawns.

 

\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Jesus said this in Matthew 24:21-22 (nKJV):

For then there will be great tribulation,
such as has not been since the beginning of
the world until this time, no, nor ever shall
be.
22. And unless those days were shortened, no
flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake
those days will be shortened.

I beleive the Church Age elect will be in
heaven during the Great Tribulation,
because of the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.
Yet it will be for regard to these
elect that the Great Tribulation is shortened.
It makes me wonder if the Church Age saints
in heaven receive data about what is going
on upon the face of the Earth. For if they
are aware of the tormet of their friends
and loved ones in the Tribulation, would they
not petition Jesus to end it soon?

Sherrie: "I am sure the only focus in Heaven is singing
to the Lord, and praising our Father God."

Amen, Sister Sherrie -- Preach it!
But that does NOT preclude that a non-focus
activity will be the monitoring of activities
and events that occur on earth, as seen from heaven.

Margie Kritzer: "I believe we want to understand Heaven and eternity
on our terms. We can't help but to have
a simplistic image of such an awesome concept."

Agreed! And, i guess it is possible to ask questions
for which there is no answer.

 

Once an open and renowned sinner started attending church (a true story happening in the area of Glasgow KY where I live). He attended many services over an extended period of time, but never seemed to be affected by the messages delivered by the preacher. Regardless of subject, or degree of passion the preacher employed in delivering the topic this man always remained unaffected.
In the same church was an old member, who always sat in a chair next to the wall and the wood stove, (showing the time of occurance) unless moved upon by the Holy Spirit, at which time he would leave his seat and shout the praises of God, the blessings of knowing Him and his life agreed in all accords with his testimony.
One Sunday morning the sinner found his place on his normal pew, the congregation arriving the services started. The preacher began his sermon, expounding upon the Grace of God, the Blessedness of those receiving salvation and the eternal doom of those dying without Christ. At some point during the sermon the sinner looked over at the wall, almost expecting the "old man" to jump from his chair any moment, but this couldn't happen. The old member had gone to be with the Lord during the previous week. The sinner making note of this still sat in his place unmoved. At the end of the sermon the preacher asked for any of whom the Spirit of God may be dealing with, and the sinner rose from his place and came forward to the mourner's bench and began to cry out for mercy in prayers to God. The church moved to the bench with the man and each member did according to the Grace of God their very best to implore of God the blessing of salvation upon this one, seemingly so affected by the preacher's late message after so long a time of plain indifference. In the course of the prayer, the sinner met his redeemer, and the cup of condemnation was transformed into the cup of salvation. This being proclaimed before the entire congregation, the preacher ventured a question. He asked the saved: "Do you mind telling me just what part of my discourse prompted you to seek your salvation so earnestly?" To which the man replied, No part of it. The preacher, now perplexed asked the justified man what it was that caused him to move as he did, after so many months of motionless, cold indifference. The man replied, I realized the old man who took his place next to the heating stove was not among us today, then I remembered he passed away last week. I couldn't stop thinking how he used to stand and praise God for the many blessings he had received during his life in this world, and I kept thinking the one he most cherished was that of salvation, so that he could spend forever with his Savior, it was the memory of his confidence, and the absence of him now that led me to desire to have such a confident faith that would prepare me to meet with God. No preacher, it was not so much your preaching, but it was the testimony of that old man, coupled with his going on to be with the one who gave himself for him that urged me to seek my place among that blessed multitude.

Yeah. They are a powerful witness, these lives we are given. Let us observe with all sincerety how we live it.

Dallas Eaton
Glasgow, KY

 

Warm Christian greetings!

The point made by SueLyn in an earlier post is correct. If our loved ones who have gone before us could see the way we let the Lord down then it would lessen their joys in Heaven, and as Heaven is a place of absolute joy with nothing to mar it then it stands to reason that they do not look down at what we are doing.

Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

Why look back at the Volkswagon you just traded in--when you're drivin' a Cadillac now!??

From the lips of:
Blackbird

 

Well, here it is in some context:

Heb 11:32 And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets,
Heb 11:33 who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
Heb 11:35 Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
Heb 11:36 and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
Heb 11:38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

Chapter 11 of Hebrews is referred to as the Hall of Faith by some, because it talks about some of God's most faithful servants as recorded in the OT. The point I think the author of Hebrews is trying to hammer home is "hey look at all these people in OT times who were faithful to God, and they didn't even see the Savior or understand the plan of salvation (see Heb 11:39, the plan of salvation had not yet unfolded). All of these stories are recorded for us so let's follow their example and live godly lives whatever the cost (Heb 12:1-4)."

The OT Saints are "witnesses" to us in the sense that their lives are recorded in the old testament. It doesn't mean that the spirits of departed saints are constantly surrounding us, because if these spirits were "witnesses" we'd be able to see and hear them (so they could witness to us; what kind of witness can't be seen or heard?).

That's how I read the passage anyway. But don't just listen to me, start at Heb 11:1 and read through to the end of chapter 12. I think the point of the passage is pretty clear if you read it in context.

I'm sorry I can't answer your original question, I honestly don't know whether the spirits of departed loved ones can see us... I just know (or think I know that this passage doesn't provide an answer to that question either way.

Eric

[ September 16, 2002, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]