Can real atheists exist according to the bible?

[xdisciplex]

Romans 1:18-21For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

I jwatched Andrew Womack and he read from Romans and he said that basically everybody, even atheists, know that God exists. He named an example where he was in Vietnam war and when the grenades were exploding next to them his atheistic friend suddenly started to cry out to God.
The bible also says that God has revealed himself through his creation.
But does this mean that really everybody should know that God exists? Does anybody know Ralph Muncaster? He was an atheist before he became a christian and since he was taught that evolution is a fact he also didn't believe in God. I don't think that all atheists know that there is a God and they simply don't want it to be true. What do you think? And do you think that everybody, even atheists, know that they are sinners?
But if the bible says that basically everybody knows that there is a God then does this mean that even if people say they honestly don't believe in God they are simply lying? But what about christians which fell off from God cause they lost their faith? Why should they fall off from God if they still know that God exists? This makes no sense.
Does this mean that if you find a person which honestly doesn't believe in God then this would prove the bible wrong since the bible says that everybody knows there is a God?

 

[NateT]

If I read that passage right, it says that anyone who doesn't know that God exists is without excuse. It's not that it says everybody truly believes God exists, but rather those who deny that He does do not have an excuse. For example, if you go take an exam on the countries of the United Nations, and your prof tells you the information the test will cover, and you go in and don't know the answers, it doesn't demonstrate that the prof didn't give you the information. It only demonstrates that you didn't learn it. But you are without an excuse because he told you what would be on the test, and you didn't study.

Further, from a philisophical standpoint, I don't believe there are hardly any true atheists. Most are simply agnostic (not sure if He exists or not) and most of the rest elevate themselves to the status of a god. So it isn't that they don't believe in any god, just not God.

 

[genesis12]

Does this mean that if you find a person which honestly doesn't believe in God then this would prove the bible wrong since the bible says that everybody knows there is a God?

No. Enough said.

We all know that God exists, someone outside of ourselves, in the spiritual realm. That's Biblical. Those who call themselves atheists are in denial. In WW-II and other wars, lots of GIs found God in a foxhole. After crying out to Him, and surviving, many quickly "fell away," to use your terminology.

1. They weren't convicted of their sin, their need of a Savior, at that moment, or

2. They were convicted and lost fellowship by not following up in assembling with others of like faith, or, being embarrassed, hid their faith around others.

I can't say it often enough: Stick with scripture. Don't invent imaginative scenarios that won't stand the test of spiritual examination. Keep the faith! (I didn't know Womack could be seen in Germany. How were you able to view one of his sermons?) Keep looking up! :thumbs:

 

[J. Jump]

I'm with Genesis. They can not exist. They can only fool themselves temporarily into believing that lie.

 

[gekko]

hmm. interesting topic. im with genesis on this one.

question though: if you do come across an atheist... how do you prove there is a God without using the bible or the term "faith" ??

 

[BobRyan]

No real ahteist! What a great point. Romans 1 argues for intelligent design KNOWN to all mankind KNOWN to non-believers, KNOWN to non-Christians.

John 16 argues for "Conviction of sin and righteousness and judgment" upon ALL mankind EVEN unbelievers EVEN atheists.

I agree with you - even though the fool SAYS in his heart "there is no god" he is STILL confronted with these irrefutable facts by our Creator! He can not "make himself" into the evolved thing that he imagines just by imagining it! "perception is NOT reality" - God exists EVEN though the fool says in his heart that God does not exist which means the conditions of the experiment don't change just because the rat in the maze imagines himself to be alone on the beach.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mima]

Yes it's true I agree

I believe you are correct. The go a little bit deeper psychologically, by denying the existence of God a person admits that there is something to deny and that's something of course would be God.
I once had the experience of proving to a man who said he was an atheist that in fact he was not an atheist by using this argument. I asked him do you swear, of course already knew he did I had heard him, yes he replied. Okay I said by taking God's name in vain you are admitting there's a God. For example my name is Arthur and people don't will run saying Arthur Damn or Damn Arthur do they? No he said, OK I said when you swear you're in fact declaring there is a God least you would not use his name or title in swearing.
O my goodness he said, I understand what you're trying to said.

 

[music4Him]

Ah ha! Good witness ~Mima! :applause:
Using the 10 comandments to convict him. :thumbs:

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[webdog]

God doesn't call them atheists, He calls them fools...

Psalm 14:1 For the choir director. Davidic. The fool says in his heart, "God does not exist." They are corrupt; their actions are revolting. There is no one who does good.
Psalm 53:1 For the choir director: on Mahalath. A Davidic Maskil. The fool says in his heart, "God does not exist." They are corrupt, and they do vile deeds. There is no one who does good.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I believe you are correct. The go a little bit deeper psychologically, by denying the existence of God a person admits that there is something to deny and that's something of course would be God.
I once had the experience of proving to a man who said he was an atheist that in fact he was not an atheist by using this argument. I asked him do you swear, of course already knew he did I had heard him, yes he replied. Okay I said by taking God's name in vain you are admitting there's a God. For example my name is Arthur and people don't will run saying Arthur Damn or Damn Arthur do they? No he said, OK I said when you swear you're in fact declaring there is a God least you would not use his name or title in swearing.
O my goodness he said, I understand what you're trying to said.

I think this is faulty logic. People sometimes say, "By Jove!", but they don't believe in Jupiter.

I think atheists indeed exist. My atheist friend says that a theist is one who has belief in a god, therefore an a-theist is one without such a belief. It matters not if God exists or not for this logic to hold.

 

[gekko]

actually magneticpoles... the definition of "atheist" is one who denies the existence of God.

atheists dont exist - in fact - a devout atheist is not an atheist at all - hes an agnostic - but not atheist.

i asked a question earlier - "how do you prove there is a God without using the bible or the term "faith" " ?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

actually magneticpoles... the definition of "atheist" is one who denies the existence of God.

atheists dont exist - in fact - a devout atheist is not an atheist at all - hes an agnostic - but not atheist.

i asked a question earlier - "how do you prove there is a God without using the bible or the term "faith" " ?

Gekko, I disagree with your definition, strictly from the construction of the word. However, even if one accepts your definition, how does it follow that "one who denies the existence of God" doesn't exist. That is just not so.

I would add that all atheists are also agnostics, but not all agnostics are atheists.

As for proving the existence of God, I see it as a two-fold issue, even though I think "proof" from empirical evidence is probably impossible. First, you must convince the atheist that a god exists at all. Secondly, you must then prove why God, YHWH, the father, is the true God. Definitely different witnessing to atheists than to those who have a basic supposition of believing the Bible. Someone who believes the Bible can be shown to salvation via scripture. To an atheist, they come from a different perspective, thus rendering scripture as irrelevant to their way of thinking.

My friend and I have had many interesting dialogues, as you might imagine.

 

[gekko]

ya ya - i agree there are those who fully have convinced themselves there is no God. i believe that. i know people like that.
but in reality - they dont believe that - they are just convincing themselves of that.

another definition for theist is: [SIZE=-1]one who believes in the existence of a god or gods

i google'd both words for their definitions.

now: it is possible to prove empirically that there is a God. that there is a creator. but it does not prove which god.

let me explain - in the downtown area of your city - you look at a particular building. now - how do you know that there was a build-er? well. simple - the building is proof that there is a building. look at a painting - when you look at it - how do you know there was a painting? the painting itself is proof that there is a painter. when you look at creation - how do you know there is a creator? creation is proof that there is a creator.
if they deny creation... you can expose evolution to them... or you can say to them "so if i was to jump off the top of the empire state building believing that there is no such thing as gravity... is that going to change the end result? no." our beliefs do not negate reality.
[/SIZE]

 

[BobRyan]

In Matt 7 we see those who "finally reach the point" where they ignore the conviction of the Spirit of God and "Convince themselves" that they are "in" when in fact they are out - still.

When one reaches the point of being seared in the conscience they live a fully self-deceived life. 2Thess 2 God "gives them over to believe a lie" BECAUSE prior to that - they made choices and "DID not RECEIVE a love of the truth".

Christ came to "His own and His own did not receive Him" John 1.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

But what about people which were taught evolution is a fact? I mean they won't believe in God anymore, why should they? If they are brainwashed enough. And also there are people which say they would like to believe in God but they cannot because intellectually there is too much which is holding them back. Doesn't this prove that it's not so easy? Hardcore atheists first of all have to learn that evolution isn't true before they can get faith.
And unless you're a scientists and study creation you also won't see much about intelligent design. The normal person which has no clue of this stuff won't even be able to understand how brilliant everything is designed or does the average person understand how complex a single cell is? Most likely not.

 

[gekko]

that's when "Way Of The Master" comes in handy - as well as the Online School of Biblical Evangelism.

i've applied for the school - and waiting to hear back from them... they teach you how to prove evolution is false - and all that kinda stuff with atheists - jw's - etc.

 

[BobRyan]

A person's conscience can be "seared" to the point of rejecting all light EVEN though "Christ is the Light of the World. HE is the light that coming into the world enlightens EVERYONE of mankind" John 1.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

Just so you know, its a really hurtful thing to fight and athiest over their actual beliefs instead of 'living as God' to them, that being the ultimate proof.

 

[BobRyan]

Just so you know - this thread is not intended to be a debate with an atheist. In theory - there are no atheists debating this topic since this is a Christian message board.

So the point is to discuss the "Background" truths behind the facade put forward by the average atheist. What is going on behind the scenes? Are they "really atheists" that have lived without any influence drawing convicting of God - or are they in fact lost sinful humans that HAVE experienced the drawing and convicting power of God and YET continually turn toward rebellion?

BTW just because they reject God "today" does not mean they will continue to refuse the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and will continue to "ignore the knocking at the door". Many atheists do eventually come to faith in Christ,

In Christ,

Bob

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

so basicially, this is a "KNow your enemy" topic. I just was givig a strategy for confronting them other than showing our intellictual superiority of their psyche.