Can unbelievers have spiritual gifts?

[Jedi Knight]

Dr. Ed Young of second Baptist Houston's "the winning walk" program was saying that unbelievers can have spiritual gifts....."just look at Judas" he says. I don't buy that.....thoughts?:type:

 

[OldRegular]

Dr. Ed Young of second Baptist Houston's "the winning walk" program was saying that unbelievers can have spiritual gifts....."just look at Judas" he says. I don't buy that.....thoughts?:type:

Not from God!

 

[convicted1]

Not from God!

Wasn't Judas one of the twelve that Jesus gave power to to heal the sick, cast out demons, give sight to the blind, etc?

What's getting lost in the shuffle is that during this time, they were still under the Law. The Grace Covenant was ushered in after Jesus' ascension. Even Saul prophesied, and an ass spoke during OT times.........

 

[convicted1]

Matthew 10
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

So, yes, Jesus gave Judas the same authority of the other eleven. But now that we're under the Grace Covenant, no, sinners don't have it.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Non-believers can have talents and abilities such as singing, motivational speaking, and mathmatical prowess.

But since spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Holy Spirit and in His timing and discretion for the purpose of the common good, unity in the body of Christ, and for the glory of God, then I would have to say that non-believers - not being filled with the Holy Spirit - cannot possess spiritual gifts

Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[convicted1]

Non-believers can have talents and abilities such as singing, motivational speaking, and mathmatical prowess.

But since spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Holy Spirit and in His timing and discretion for the purpose of the common good, unity in the body of Christ, and for the glory of God, then I would have to say that non-believers - not being filled with the Holy Spirit - cannot possess spiritual gifts

Now, I agree wth this wholeheartedly....:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

Wasn't Judas one of the twelve that Jesus gave power to to heal the sick, cast out demons, give sight to the blind, etc?

Is there any record of Judas doing anything?

What's getting lost in the shuffle is that during this time, they were still under the Law. The Grace Covenant was ushered in after Jesus' ascension. Even Saul prophesied, and an ass spoke during OT times.........

Salvation has always been by grace. And the NT does not necessarily keep an ass from speaking.

 

[OldRegular]

Non-believers can have talents and abilities such as singing, motivational speaking, and mathmatical prowess.

But since spiritual gifts are bestowed by the Holy Spirit and in His timing and discretion for the purpose of the common good, unity in the body of Christ, and for the glory of God, then I would have to say that non-believers - not being filled with the Holy Spirit - cannot possess spiritual gifts

And I would have to say you are correct.

 

[preachinjesus]

Unbelievers can have the characteristics and qualities of spiritual gifts, but until they are exercised following justification they are simply well intentioned predilections.

Following justification these gifts become spiritual.

 

[convicted1]

Is there any record of Judas doing anything?



Salvation has always been by grace. And the NT does not necessarily keep an ass from speaking.

Well the bible says Judas was one of the twelve, and Jesus gave the twelve the authority to do what they did. I agree that there's no record of Judas doing anything, but none of us has the ability to say he didn't either.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Even Saul prophesied

On a side note: althought I wouldn't be dogmatic about it...I've never been convinced that Saul was not ultimately saved.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Dr. Ed Young of second Baptist Houston's "the winning walk" program was saying that unbelievers can have spiritual gifts....."just look at Judas" he says. I don't buy that.....thoughts?:type:

I'm very short on time so I can't comment in any depth, but consider this clear teaching of Jesus:

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"

 

[Baptist Believer]

I've been so busy over the past two days I haven't been able to get back to this until now.

I don't know what Wd Young actually said in his show, or what context he said it, but as it was presented in the OP, I would disagree with him - although I think I know what he means.

It is my opinion that only those who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit have spiritual gifts as we normally identify them. However, unbelievers can be mightily used of God, even exhibiting manifestations of the Holy Spirit in action, as allowed by the will of God. These circumstances, again in my opinion, either occur because of the pressing human need of the moment, or God is demonstrating His compassion and power to unbelievers. I have had missionary friends who serve in Muslim and Asian countries where their work is illegal tell me that on occasion they have been told of people being healed after they call out to the "God of the Christians" resulting in the conversion of entire families and villages. Jesus seems to hint at something like this in Mark 9:38-40.

We have to be careful of assuming that certain "Christian" leaders are truly godly (or even true believers) simply because God has used them from time to time in mighty ways. Jesus makes it clear in Matthew 7:21-23 that miracles, exorcisms, and powerful preaching is not evidence of being a true believer.

 

[DHK]

I'm very short on time so I can't comment in any depth, but consider this clear teaching of Jesus:

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"

This speaks of false prophets.
It demonstrates that Satan can perform miracles too.
As we get closer and closer to the end of the age and the coming of the Antichrist, I expect to see more of this. Also remember that Jannes and Jambres did this in the time of Moses as well.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

What "gifts" are given to believers which unbelievers do not or cannot posses. Has anyone here ever miraculously received a spiritual gift at the time of your conversion? Do you posses special abilities that you would not posses if you were not saved? Could it be that God uses abilities & characteristics which we already posses?

 

[Baptist Believer]

This speaks of false prophets.
It demonstrates that Satan can perform miracles too.

I have considered this interpretation, but I don't think it is accurate because Jesus was accused of casting out demons by the power of the evil one. He points out that it would be pointless (a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand).

Since this passage specifically mentions exorcism, I don't think we can go there. However, I do agree that there are "lying wonders" caused by the evil one, now and in the coming days.

 

[Baptist Believer]

What "gifts" are given to believers which unbelievers do not or cannot posses. Has anyone here ever miraculously received a spiritual gift at the time of your conversion? Do you posses special abilities that you would not posses if you were not saved?

Yes.

The gifts of teaching, discernment and the word of knowledge, specifically.

Could it be that God uses abilities & characteristics which we already posses?

God gives us gifts and uses gifts that suit our personaities and character. It's not either/or, but both/and.

 

[DHK]

I have considered this interpretation, but I don't think it is accurate because Jesus was accused of casting out demons by the power of the evil one. He points out that it would be pointless (a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand).

Since this passage specifically mentions exorcism, I don't think we can go there. However, I do agree that there are "lying wonders" caused by the evil one, now and in the coming days.

The Pharisees saw Jesus on earth in the flesh. They heard his words, and with their own eyes saw his miracles, even the casting out of demons. Then, they had the audacity to attribute those great miracles to the spirit of Satan, an evil spirit. For this cause Jesus said: "By what power do you cast spirits out? If I cast out spirits out by the power of Satan, then how do you do it? A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." Later on he then gives the sharpest rebuke and the sternest of warnings:

Whosoever blasphemes against the Son of God may be forgiven,
But whoso blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

What is the meaning? Seeing the miracles of Jesus, they were attributing them to the power and work of Satan. That was blasphemy and they would not be forgiven for that. It was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit--a sin which cannot be committed today, IMO.

That being said, "casting out demons" is not the only sign mentioned in the passage in Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

 

[ChristianSoldier]

Absolutely!

If you have witnessed gifts of the Holy Spirit then you should be familiar with counterfeit gifts, from Satan. This is why we test our gifts according to 1 John 4, because some are not from God. Some can even be taught gifts from man. Although I believe in the gift of tongues for example, I have yet to see one from the Holy Spirit. All tongue gifts i have witnessed are taught gifts by man, not freely given by God. If those people were to test their spirits they would surely fail the test. Fortune telling, channeling, divinity, etc are all counterfeit gifts from Satan. And all are rampant and deceptive in society today. :godisgood:

 

[Baptist Believer]

If you have witnessed gifts of the Holy Spirit then you should be familiar with counterfeit gifts, from Satan.

Yes.

Although I believe in the gift of tongues for example, I have yet to see one from the Holy Spirit. All tongue gifts i have witnessed are taught gifts by man, not freely given by God.

Yes. I have been around tongue-speaking a number of times, but I have only seen one instance I believe was of the Holy Spirit.