Can Unregenerate Man "Do" any Righteous Thing?

[Dr. Bob]

On another thread, now closed for over page limits, it was mentioned that unsaved/ungodly people DO seek God. Just not the "right" God.

Think all would agree with that. Man is innately "religious" and seeks many gods or even makes up gods. The Psalmist spoke of "GOD" as being greater than the "idols" and "gods" and "lords" of the unregenerate.

(1) But can unregenerate man truly seek the true "GOD"?

(2) If 'yes', then is this not a RIGHT thing to do?

And concluding question obviously is
(3) If 'yes', can unregenerate man do something RIGHT in the sight of God. (We are NOT talking about doing good deeds or good works in OUR estimation, since that is not the issue and we can be deceived easily).

Trying to get a handle on the thinking of some in relation to biblical texts and principles in this matter.

~~

[BTW, as Administrator I handle certain duties. It does not nor has it ever meant that I cannot start threads, discuss threads, give my position/arguments on a thread just like any other member. I will not use any mystical administrative almost godlike powers or voodoo to push my biblical position over your non-biblical position. :saint: note: sarcasm]

 

[InTheLight]

On another thread, now closed for over page limits, it was mentioned that unsaved/ungodly people DO seek God. Just not the "right" God.

Think all would agree with that. Man is innately "religious" and seeks many gods or even makes up gods. The Psalmist spoke of "GOD" as being greater than the "idols" and "gods" and "lords" of the unregenerate.

(1) But can unregenerate man truly seek the true "GOD"?

Yes. As I posted on the other thread, find error in this:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen


(2) If 'yes', then is this not a RIGHT thing to do?

Yes, it is a right thing to do.

And concluding question obviously is
(3) If 'yes', can unregenerate man do something RIGHT in the sight of God.

The question should read: Can man do something righteous in the sight of God? No, he can't. But that's something else entirely.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes. As I posted on the other thread, find error in this:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen


(2) If 'yes', then is this not a RIGHT thing to do?

Yes, it is a right thing to do.

And concluding question obviously is
(3) If 'yes', can unregenerate man do something RIGHT in the sight of God.

The question should read: Can man do something righteous in the sight of God? No, he can't. But that's something else entirely.

That people give verbal or mental assent to a creed is no evidence whatsoever that men are seeking the one true God.

And to your last statement:

If it is NOT righteous in the sight of God- can it be truly righteous????

 

[InTheLight]

That people give verbal or mental assent to a creed is no evidence whatsoever that men are seeking the one true God.

Was there any error in that creed?

 

[Luke2427]

Was there any error in that creed?

That is irrelevant.

It does not matter if the creed was absolutely perfect.

Ascribing to a creed does not equate seeking for the one true God.

Do you not think that there are many who give assent to a creed for the political or social advantages who have no interest at all in God?

 

[InTheLight]

That is irrelevant.

It does not matter if the creed was absolutely perfect.

Sorry, it's absolutely relevant. Does the creed describe the one true God? Yes, yes it does. Do unregenerates venerate it? Yes, they do. They leave their homes and go into churches full of Christian icons and symbolism and say these words. Yet you say that is not seeking God?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Creed is 100% IRRELEVANT to the topic at hand.

Can unregenerate man do any righteous thing? He can parrot some words of a creed (who cares? not the issue so don't derail this thread please).

Can he do any righteous thing? (Right in the sight of God, not man)

 

[The Archangel]

Sorry, it's absolutely relevant. Does the creed describe the one true God? Yes, yes it does. Do unregenerates venerate it? Yes, they do. They leave their homes and go into churches full of Christian icons and symbolism and say these words. Yet you say that is not seeking God?

The problem, though, is that we are not called to hear one's confession of what they believe. We do want to know and we should want to know what one believes. But that is only lip-service is the actions are not there.

While it is a generalization (and perhaps a gross generalization), many who venerate the creed posted without trusting in the One to whom it points.

One thing we know for certain from scripture is that true faith always leads to a changed life (and that is not a generalization).

In the case of the unregenerate who venerate this creed, it is not the reciting of the creed that shows one is seeking God. It is a changed life--a life in conformity to all of the Bible--that shows this changed life.

Unfortunately, many creed reciters are not truly seeking God. Why? Because they are not seeking Him on His terms. They are "believing" in a Creed as the mechanism to save them. It becomes a twisted type of works salvation (with recitation of a creed and no fruitful works). There is a logical disconnect between what one reports to believe and how one should live...which is basically the very definition of seeking God on our own terms.

Now, I would be remiss if I didn't say that Baptist (Southern Baptists) have a great problem in this area too. Like most other denominations, many in the SBC think in two streams of error: 1.) It only matters what I claim to believe or 2.) It only matters what I do. True Christianity--coming to God on His terms--requires both.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[MB]

On another thread, now closed for over page limits, it was mentioned that unsaved/ungodly people DO seek God. Just not the "right" God.

Think all would agree with that. Man is innately "religious" and seeks many gods or even makes up gods. The Psalmist spoke of "GOD" as being greater than the "idols" and "gods" and "lords" of the unregenerate.

(1) But can unregenerate man truly seek the true "GOD"?

I believe man has that ability yes but. does he? Not always. He can if he knows there is the one and only true God. Such as Jesus Christ. Many hear the gospel and do not respond simply because they are affraid of the conviction. I was and I knew about Christ long before I was saved, I was witness to day and night by my parents and taught the gospel. Yet I rejected Christ for 14 years before I accepted Christ as my Savior. So when Calvinist tell me men cannot resist God I just laugh at them because regrettably I did for most of my child hood. Yes I was eventually saved but that does not mean that I didn't resist.
I can say that I was seeking God when I was saved. I knew who Jesus was and I knew He could not only save my soul but save me from myself as well. Not only that I knew exactly at the moment I was saved and have never doubted that all my adult life. No doubt you'll think I don't know what I'm talking about. But read carefully. God was already working on me when I saught Him. He was convincing me that I needed Him. I had been convicted for quite a while. No I was not already regenerated. I was not saved. I did as I pleased. I was not dragged kicking and screaming to the alter. I went on my own freewill not so much to ask to be saved but to surrender. I couldn't take the conviction any longer. I hate feeling so miserable.

You'll probably say see God saved you inspite of your self yet that isn't true either. I know of many who are still fighting the conviction. I talk to a few of them every once in a while and they've been fighting it ever since we were kids together. I know of a few like me who gave up and surrendered but, resist they did just like me.

(2) If 'yes', then is this not a RIGHT thing to do?

It is. But a long way from righteousness according to God. Obeying the Law is the only righteousness there is and it has to be done perfectly The natural man is able to seek God of there own freewill. There simply are no disabilities keeping man from seeking God.
Romans doesn't say he can't seek God, but says there are none who seek after God and this was uttered by a fool in the Psalms. At the time it was said there may have not been anyone seeking God.

And concluding question obviously is
(3) If 'yes', can unregenerate man do something RIGHT in the sight of God. (We are NOT talking about doing good deeds or good works in OUR estimation, since that is not the issue and we can be deceived easily).

Yes
The Jews Paul talks about in Romans 10:1-4. Would you say that if they would have submitted to God's righteousness they would have been saved?
Or how about the Jailer in Act 16 who came and asked Paul how he could be saved. Don't you think that rather strange. He was no doubt seeking God and there is no evidence the man was already regenerated or why would he have asked if he already understood? as so many Calvinist have explained regeneration to me as an immediate understanding of the mind and renewal of the spirit.

Trying to get a handle on the thinking of some in relation to biblical texts and principles in this matter.

~~

[BTW, as Administrator I handle certain duties. It does not nor has it ever meant that I cannot start threads, discuss threads, give my position/arguments on a thread just like any other member. I will not use any mystical administrative almost godlike powers or voodoo to push my biblical position over your non-biblical position. :saint: note: sarcasm]

Will this be theoretical or actual Biblical position you plan to serve. I didn't bring anything to this debate but God's word. LOL
MB

 

[percho]

On another thread, now closed for over page limits, it was mentioned that unsaved/ungodly people DO seek God. Just not the "right" God.

Think all would agree with that. Man is innately "religious" and seeks many gods or even makes up gods. The Psalmist spoke of "GOD" as being greater than the "idols" and "gods" and "lords" of the unregenerate.

(1) But can unregenerate man truly seek the true "GOD"?

(2) If 'yes', then is this not a RIGHT thing to do?

And concluding question obviously is
(3) If 'yes', can unregenerate man do something RIGHT in the sight of God. (We are NOT talking about doing good deeds or good works in OUR estimation, since that is not the issue and we can be deceived easily).

Trying to get a handle on the thinking of some in relation to biblical texts and principles in this matter.

~~

[BTW, as Administrator I handle certain duties. It does not nor has it ever meant that I cannot start threads, discuss threads, give my position/arguments on a thread just like any other member. I will not use any mystical administrative almost godlike powers or voodoo to push my biblical position over your non-biblical position. :saint: note: sarcasm]

I don't think that the word teaches any man of any kind really seeks after God. I would venture to say that if things always turned up roses no one would even think of God. The morning Saul left for Damascus I would assume most would say he was unregenerate and I do not believe he was seeking God. He thought he was already doing God's will. All spoken of through the whole word of God that had a relationship with God it is God that initiated. God calls and his sheep hear his voice.

Guess my answer is no and don't think you want no opinions.

 

[Winman]

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus said the evil can give "good" gifts.

And does it make sense that a person who already has the Holy Spirit would need to ask for him?

 

[InTheLight]

Creed is 100% IRRELEVANT to the topic at hand.

Can unregenerate man do any righteous thing? He can parrot some words of a creed (who cares? not the issue so don't derail this thread please).

Sorry. Luke2427 derailed the thread to "no one seeks God" and I was challenging that statement. I won't derail this thread, I guess I'll have to start another one.

Can he do any righteous thing? (Right in the sight of God, not man)

Make filthy rags? :laugh:

 

[Gershom]

Creed is 100% IRRELEVANT to the topic at hand.

Can unregenerate man do any righteous thing? He can parrot some words of a creed (who cares? not the issue so don't derail this thread please).

Can he do any righteous thing? (Right in the sight of God, not man)

Yes he can. Feeding the poor. Is that not righteous?

 

[The Archangel]

Yes he can. Feeding the poor. Is that not righteous?

Only if one believes in a works salvation.

The Archangel

 

[Gershom]

Only if one believes in a works salvation.

The Archangel

The question was not whether a righteous act can save you.

 

[kyredneck]

(1)...can unregenerate man truly seek the true "GOD"? ....

.....If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God....If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God.....It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3:3,5,7 YLT

Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Jn 8:43

Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2:14

The unregenerate cannot see, they cannot enter, they cannot hear, they cannot know. THEY'RE DEAD.

 

[Winman]

I am sure many will disagree, but when the scriptures say there is none righteous, or none that doeth good that it is speaking of being 100% without sin. It is not saying that man cannot do some good things.

For example, God said that if Cain did "well" it would be accepted. I cannot imagine that God would accept evil. And we know Cain was not at this time or ever regenerate.

You also have Jesus saying men who are evil can give "good" gifts. Now, Jesus himself chose to use the word "good". If it is impossible for unregenerate man to do any good thing whatsoever, it is hard to understand why he would use this word. Jesus also said sinners do good to those who do good to them, again using the word "good". How is this possible if sinners can do no good thing?

So, I have never understood the commonly quoted verses in Romans as meaning man cannot do some good things, I understood it to be speaking of being 100% righteous, without sin altogether.

 

[The Archangel]

The question was not whether a righteous act can save you.

The answer is, obviously, no.

But, Bob's statement, to which you responded, seemed to suggest if man could do any righteous thing:

Can he do any righteous thing? (Right in the sight of God, not man)

The answer here, again, is no.

The Archangel

 

[Gershom]

The answer is, obviously, no.

But, Bob's statement, to which you responded, seemed to suggest if man could do any righteous thing:



The answer here, again, is no.

The Archangel

If God says it is right to feed the poor (or any deed He declares right and good), then, yes, it is righteous in God's eyes no matter if it is a believer or unregenerate man performing the act. Doesn't mean it will save either one.

 

[kyredneck]

will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? Micah 6:7

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Jehovah; But the prayer of the upright is his delight. Prov 15:8