Can we ALL agree that God loves and wants every person to be saved?

[Skandelon]

I most certainly deny that non-point. There have been a host of Calvinists since at least the early 17th century who have stated that God does not have a love for all. I'll dig that info up at a later time.

Can you rightly call them a "Calvinist" since Calvin himself didn't agree with this point? Why wouldn't it be better to label them "hyper" as Phil Johnson and others appear to do?

 

[quantumfaith]

You need to go over my post point-by-point and explain why you believe the way you do.

BTW,the much bandied-about "whosoever" means believing ones.

For now, I am going to sign off from commenting. I am too tempted to respond with the lack of collegial respect much like you referring to me displaying "absurd fiction".

 

[Winman]

I most certainly deny that non-point. There have been a host of Calvinists since at least the early 17th century who have stated that God does not have a love for all. I'll dig that info up at a later time.

I get a real chuckle when I read posts like this. Calvinists constantly ridicule non-Cals as being backwater hicks because we do not study their theologians, but when you quote Reformed authors they say they do not agree with them!

 

[Rippon]

Can you rightly call them a "Calvinist" since Calvin himself didn't agree with this point? Why wouldn't it be better to label them "hyper" as Phil Johnson and others appear to do?

You profess to have been a Calvinist yet you still continue this line of non-reasoning. Calvinists do not follow John Calvin. We feel free to express ourselves without dipping into his works in order to meet with his approval. Get it former Calvinist?

Phil J. has had to back off somewhat from his essay on hyper-Calvinism since according to his criteria some have accused his friend James White of leaning in a hyper-Calvinist direction.

Again,there have been a number of Calvinists in the past few centuries who have written that God does not love all. It's not something novel;new. It is certainly not a hyper-Calvinistic viewpoint.

 

[TCGreek]

For what it's worth, I've recently renounced Calvinism.

 

[Rippon]

For now, I am going to sign off from commenting. I am too tempted to respond with the lack of collegial respect much like you referring to me displaying "absurd fiction".

Okay,fine. Just deal in broad generalities --you wouldn't want to be charged with being specific.

 

[quantumfaith]

For what it's worth, I've recently renounced Calvinism.

I am really interested in what may have swayed you to "the dark side" (as some may seem to suggest).

 

[Rippon]

I get a real chuckle when I read posts like this. Calvinists constantly ridicule non-Cals as being backwater hicks because we do not study their theologians, but when you quote Reformed authors they say they do not agree with them!

Can you rephrase that? I don't understand your "...but when you quote Reformed authors they say they do not agree with them."

 

[TCGreek]

I am really interested in what may have swayed you to "the dark side" (as some may seem to suggest).

Given the tensions of Scripture and, in rethinking many of the arguments championed by Calvinists, I've become quite disillusioned with the whole system of thought.

As I've always said, Calvinism is just human construct. This must not be lost upon us.

 

[preacher4truth]

Google The Faith of the Saints by Ernest C. Reisinger, a Reformed author. In this article he describes how unregenerated men can have a counterfeit "spurious" faith. A quote from this article;



This author is quite correct if Calvinism is true. You cannot possibly know for a certainty if you have true saving faith if you do not know for a certainty you are regenerated. It is a vicious circle of doubt.

Just copy that statement and paste it in Google and this detailed article should show up.

No need. You've called my faith into question plainly.

 

[quantumfaith]

Given the tensions of Scripture and, in rethinking many of the arguments championed by Calvinists, I've become quite disillusioned with the whole system of thought.

As I've always said, Calvinism is just human construct. This must not be lost upon us.

Thanks for your response TC.

 

[Skandelon]

You profess to have been a Calvinist yet you still continue this line of non-reasoning.

I suppose that MacArthur and the others quoted aren't real Calvinist either if they disagree with you on this point?

Calvinists do not follow John Calvin.

I never claimed they did. Go back and read the OP to see that I'm attempting to find a point that SHOULD be common ground in scripture. It was common ground for Calvin, MacArther, Piper, Edwards and many others already listed. Why can't it be with you?

Phil J. has had to back off somewhat from his essay on hyper-Calvinism since according to his criteria some have accused his friend James White of leaning in a hyper-Calvinist direction.

Can you point me to Phil's comments regarding backing off this? I'd be interested in reading up on that.

Again,there have been a number of Calvinists in the past few centuries who have written that God does not love all. It's not something novel;new. It is certainly not a hyper-Calvinistic viewpoint.

Ok, I'd like to read some of them as a part of our discussion, but why not side with scripture on this common ground?

 

[Winman]

Can you rephrase that? I don't understand your "...but when you quote Reformed authors they say they do not agree with them."

Skandelon has quoted several well known Calvinist theologians here, and quite a few of you have said you do not agree with their teachings.

At the same time, Calvinists constantly ridicule non-Cals for being ignorant and not having a systematic theology. Or as Luke calls us, a "no-name theology".

Why should I believe Reformed authors when you guys can't agree among yourselves?

I will stick to scripture.

 

[psalms109:31]

Extreme Calvinism

I wouldn't call it hyper myself any more, but extreme-Calvinism. Where it is O.K. spreading the gospel. What is called Calvinism is the gospel? Hyper say's it is no need to spread the Gospel.

My desire is to love God and others as myself and spreading the only hope for salvation Jesus Christ.

The taps have been played and now it is time to rest in Christ alone.

Hebrews 4
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[Some manuscripts because those who heard did not combine it with faith] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”[Psalm 95:11; also in verse 5]

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[Or labor] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[Psalm 95:7,8]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[Psalm 95:7,8] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Benjamin]

Given the tensions of Scripture and, in rethinking many of the arguments championed by Calvinists, I've become quite disillusioned with the whole system of thought.

As I've always said, Calvinism is just human construct. This must not be lost upon us.

It’s worth a lot in my heart to see someone hold the priorities of preaching the Truth above any human construct that champions arguments that would go about denying it. Good for you! God bless you.

 

[psalms109:31]

Extreme Calvinism

Double post

 

[Dr. Bob]

When bitterness and hatred reach 10 pages and I don't stop it, SOMEONE PM me. Or someone else point it out and it will stop prior to reaching 10 pages. Thanks to those "whistle blowers" who pointed out the direction this topic took.

Life is too short . . .