Can we discuss Kenosis?

[Goinheix]

"If"? You don't believe the scriptures?

Who walked on water in 2 Kings? It was an axehead, not a person walking.

Axe head or person makes not difference. Are you saying that walking a persons is sign of omnipotence, but floating a axehead is not? who draw the limit of what is to be omnipotent?

I will not distract the main porpose of this thread: kenosis. The Gospels do not say that Jesus walked over the water in the way we all visualice, steping on the water surface. The Gospels acount of Jesus walking over the sea, that is around the north coast. the Jesus walked into the water to meet the disciples that were aground. Jesus was walking in the shallow and truing to found a way (shallow waters) to reach the boat.

But that is not the thread about. Let say for a moment that Jesus did walk over the surface of the water in the same fashion Elisha did afloat the axe. Obviously is a miracle, but not a prove of an allmighty God.

 

[Goinheix]

Um...Go, you're incorrect.

2 Kings 6 tells a story of the man of God throwing in a stick, and the iron axe head subsequently floated. Nothing about a man walking on water.

Second, you state that Jesus didn't walk on the surface of the water; scripture clearly says He walked on the sea. If He didn't walk on the sea, what did He do?

I will not discuss that here. The point is that Jesus walking over the water is not a sign of an allmighty God.

 

[Amy.G]

I will not distract the main porpose of this thread: kenosis.

Apparently the "main purpose" of this thread is declare a heresy of Jesus not being God and declaring that the scriptures are not true.

 

[Goinheix]

Please name one Christian that has raised someone from the dead.

I have to check out Acts. I have to study Paul and the boy falling from a window. Any how, there is cases of resurrections in the OT. Those prophets were not allmighty or God, neither Jesus were allmightry despite he was God.

 

[Amy.G]

..........................

 

[Goinheix]

Apparently the "main purpose" of this thread is declare a heresy of Jesus not being God declaring that the scriptures are not true.

No. I have declare hundred times that Jesus is God. What you dont want to accept is the kenosis teached by Paul. You dont want to accept that not being allmighty has nothing to do with not being God.

The Bible is right and the only refusing it are you, denaying the kenosis in Philipians. I have never say that the Bible is wrong.

 

[Goinheix]

Apparently the "main purpose" of this thread is declare a heresy of Jesus not being God and declaring that the scriptures are not true.

I have just sent a report about your post because you are falsely acusingme of:
saying Jesus is not God
saying the Bible is not true

You also callme an heretic

 

[Goinheix]

I have to check out Acts. I have to study Paul and the boy falling from a window. Any how, there is cases of resurrections in the OT. Those prophets were not allmighty or God, neither Jesus were allmightry despite he was God.

And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.

Probably is not the only case. Is that prove of Paul having divine atributes?

 

[Iconoclast]

If Jesus did actually walked over the surface of the water - he didnt - it will be a miracle similar of that of Eliseo (2 Kings 6:5-7)

Sorry you do not believe the word of God,as you deny the scripture. You seem to have an ungodly agenda....not sure what you are trying to do.

24But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

25And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

whatever it is...I am not interested.

 

[Goinheix]

There is a long list of what Jesus did not know, and probably I will forget some of them:
Jesus didnt know who touches him in the case of the woman with blod flow.
Jesus didnt know of the dead of Lazarus.
Jesus didnt know where Lazarus was laid.
Jesus didnt know what was brough to him to drink at the cross.
And believe me that the list continues.


How to explain that Jesus being God was not omniscient. The answer is that for being God it is not necesary to be omniscient. God is omniscient, but God the Son did emptied out of the divine atributes as omniscience.

Jesus was God but he was not omnipresent. In the Gospels he always is in a specific place and have to walk in order to be somewhere else.

Jesus was God but he was not allmighty. He could not do things, for lack of faith or for some other reasons.

Jesus was God but not infinite. Jesus was clearly finite in space and in time. Jesus did born (not infinite in time; not as Jesus; but yes as God the Son) and had a finite body.

 

[Goinheix]

There is not a single divine atribute that we can found in Jesus. That is a prove of what Paul is teaching as kenosis: emtying of all divine atributes while being God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Then Berkhof is right and Paul is wrong? How do Berkhof explain Pauls doctrine of kenosis?

No....Paul is right...and Berkhof correctly understands the passage...you do not and seem to enjoy speaking against Jesus which I believe is evil.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is not a single divine atribute that we can found in Jesus. That is a prove of what Paul is teaching as kenosis: emtying of all divine atributes while being God.

You might not...but we all do.

 

[percho]

Hope it is ok for me to move my post over here.

Did this emptying take place in a less than a nanosecond moment in existence?
If not then did it really not take place?
If so, when do you think it took place?
Being the word for but is there in the Greek please list from the text of Philippians 2:6 what self empties (pl) is relative to?
Does, ἐκένωσεν, remotely mean laid aside?
Did this take place, "form of slave getting in likeness of humans becoming," before or after, "self empties"?

Six questions for all who would be gracious enough to answer.

My answers. 1 yes 2 no, it took place 3 the moment Mary conceived of the Holy Spirit. 4 form and to be equal with God these he emptied which I consider to be glory that he prayed to be given him again, which I understand to be life in himself and Spirit being. 5. no it does not 6. 9 months after the self empties.

I do believe because he had been begotten by the Holy Spirit he was born indwelt with the Holy Spirit but he was sinless being the Word that became flesh and he remained sinless. I also do not believe he remained sinless because it was impossible for him to sin but because he was obedient to the Father unto death even death on the cross. Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Meaning as he Jesus did. Sweat drops of blood striving against sin.

I find it interesting that he self empties form of God but getting / receiving
form of slave.

 

[Amy.G]

I have just sent a report about your post because you are falsely acusingme of:
saying Jesus is not God
saying the Bible is not true

You also callme an heretic

That's fine. Whatever you are trying to teach is wrong, unorthodox and unbiblical. By questioning the divinity of Christ, you are a false teacher, thereby making you a heretic.

In 7 years on this board, you are the first person I've ever called that, but I find your spirit offensive and IMO you are attacking my Savior.

 

[Don]

I will not discuss that here. The point is that Jesus walking over the water is not a sign of an allmighty God.

Sir, you don't get that luxury. You specifically stated that Jesus did not walk on water, which is a direct contradiction of scripture.

Please explain why you deny that scripture says Jesus walked on water. Then we can proceed to discuss why His walking on water is not a sign of an almighty God.

 

[kyredneck]

No....Paul is right...and Berkhof correctly understands the passage...you do not and seem to enjoy speaking against Jesus which I believe is evil.

I keep expecting to see that word 'Banned' beneath his moniker any time now.........

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I keep expecting to see that word 'Banned' beneath his moniker any time now.........

The clocks ticking....dead man walking.:godisgood:

 

[kyredneck]

There is not a single divine atribute that we can found in Jesus. That is a prove of what Paul is teaching as kenosis: emtying of all divine atributes while being God.

If not 'divine attribute', then what is this?:

And Jesus knowing their thoughts...Mt 9:4

And knowing their thoughts....Mt 12:25

But he knew their thoughts......Lu 6:8

But when Jesus saw the reasoning of their heart....Lu 9:47

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Jn 1:48

 

[Goinheix]

No....Paul is right...and Berkhof correctly understands the passage...you do not and seem to enjoy speaking against Jesus which I believe is evil.

First
Your post have been reported. You can not say falsely that I enjoy evil doing by talking against Jesus.

Second
Paul say that God the Son did emtied; while Berkhof say that it is not possible to add or less of God. How do Berkhof understand kenosis?