-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)
- Thread starter James_Newman
- Start date
Accountable
New Member
Linda64 said:
How do you get around Galations 4:5-6? (Tis better to read the whole chapter)
Should we also reject all old testament types of the adoption?
We cannot read and itnerpret with a Western 2007 mindset when considering "adoption."
Good point but the ones I am thinking of ARE saved. You can read some of the post here on Pastors and the like who have fallen...just because they sin doesn't mean they were not saved. We all sin yet are saved.
You can see some of the attitudes on here and mean remarks, you see it in alot of Christians these days. Just because people are saved doesn't mean they are allowing God to control their life. We are filled with the Holy Spirit, but only as one dies daily and allows the Holy Spirit to work in his life can he walk a righteous line.
Too many Christians living in the felsh and not the spirit these days.
Might have to do with the fact we have it too easy here in America!
And Linda how in the world do you know that the encyclopedia that you have quoted, which was written by fallible men (possibly some women as well) is 100% true. All you are basing your information on is the words of man.
Check out an etemology dictionary and then come back and tell us that the word adoption has ALWAYS meant the same thing. I think you might be a little surprised.
But the bottom line is what does Scripture say. And Scripture does not speak of the term huiothesia as one outside of the family being placed into the family. It is talking about those in the family being placed within a special position within the family.
We are not adopted into the family. We are born into the family. Adoption and birth are not the same thing.
Now we can either believe Scripture or we can believe what man has to say about the Scripture. I will take the first.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
God has placed in us the Spirit of adoption.
I will believe Scripture. We have been adopted.
I will believe Scripture. We have been adopted.
Hope of Glory
New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
Why does one who is born into a family (born from above into the family of God) need to be placed into a family?
Do I need to go down to the courthouse to get my children placed into my family?
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
We were born a natural birth when we were born into this world.
When we were born from above, it was an adoption of sons.
When we were born from above, it was an adoption of sons.
Hope of Glory
New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
So, you're claiming that we're not born from above when we're saved?
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
Helloooooooooooo....
Did I not just say, 'When we are born from above..."?
Did I not just say, 'When we are born from above..."?
Birth and adoption aren't the same thing. So being born from above and being adopted are not speaking of the same thing. They are different actions.
Again that would be like saying that when my son was born he wasn't part of my family until I got the adoption papers. Well I don't have adoption papers on my son, because he was born into my family and does not need adoption papers.
The same is true of a child of God. The child of God is "born" into the family. One does not need to be adopted into a family they are already a part of. They aren't the same thing.
My source is Scripture. What does Scripture say?
Well the Greek word is huiothesia, which is a compound word made up of huios, meaning son and thesis, meaning placing. Hence the word means son placing.
It has to do with maturity. An imature child that has moved out of immaturity and into maturity being placed into a mature position within the family. When we are born from above (saved) we are not born as mature sons. We are babes in Christ that must grow into maturity.
Hope of Glory
New Member
First of all, redemption is a family matter. Only a near kinsman could redeem someone.
Second of all, there's a major difference between a child of God and a son of God. One is born a child. One is placed into a position as a son, and to be placed into a position as a son, one does not have to be born a child in that family. Even a servant, already in the family, could be placed as a son over the legal and rightful heirs.
Ὑιοθεσία adoption, is from υἱός son, and θέσις a setting or placing: the placing one in the position of a son.
Merivale, in "Conversion of the Roman Empire", illustrating Paul's acquaintance with Roman law said, "The process of legal adoption by which the chosen heir became entitled not only to the reversion of the property but to the civil status, to the burdens as well as the rights of the adopter - became, as it were, his other self, one with him... " It's his chosen heir, not the process of placing the person into the family. It's position within the family.
Edited to add etymology:
Adoption: 1340, from L. adoptionem (nom. adoptio), noun of action from adoptare "chose for oneself," from ad- "to" + optare "choose, wish" (see option).
The primary definition of adoption even today is: the act of accepting with approval; favorable reception; "its adoption by society"; "the proposal found wide acceptance"
It has to do with acceptance: In the Greek and in the English.
Second of all, there's a major difference between a child of God and a son of God. One is born a child. One is placed into a position as a son, and to be placed into a position as a son, one does not have to be born a child in that family. Even a servant, already in the family, could be placed as a son over the legal and rightful heirs.
Ὑιοθεσία adoption, is from υἱός son, and θέσις a setting or placing: the placing one in the position of a son.
Merivale, in "Conversion of the Roman Empire", illustrating Paul's acquaintance with Roman law said, "The process of legal adoption by which the chosen heir became entitled not only to the reversion of the property but to the civil status, to the burdens as well as the rights of the adopter - became, as it were, his other self, one with him... " It's his chosen heir, not the process of placing the person into the family. It's position within the family.
Edited to add etymology:
Adoption: 1340, from L. adoptionem (nom. adoptio), noun of action from adoptare "chose for oneself," from ad- "to" + optare "choose, wish" (see option).
The primary definition of adoption even today is: the act of accepting with approval; favorable reception; "its adoption by society"; "the proposal found wide acceptance"
It has to do with acceptance: In the Greek and in the English.
Last edited by a moderator:
Outta' curiosity, how did you manage to miss Rom. 8:23 and 9:4 in this post? "Adoption" occurs exactly 5 times in the KJV, NKJV, NASB and four times in the HCSB with another instance translated as "adopted", again, in essence, five times. So I will quote the two verses you left out.Linda64 said:
You are correct in that 'adoption' is now applicable for the child of God, even as it was 'originally' pertained to the Israelites. And it is a "done deal" as well, 'positionally' at salvation. But we have yet to experience it, for that 'placement' comes at the time of the redemption of the body, or the glorification of our bodies, when the child of God is 'declared' as a 'legal son', and we then are 'effectively' an heir - "heirs with God, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ."
These Scriptures show that this is still future, for the Christian, even though fully and completely assured by God.
Ed
scripture that says this??His Blood Spoke My Name said:
While you are correct about the present tense, this doesn't say what you are implying, IMO. while we are 'sons' (not sure about daughters
:laugh: ) in one sense, the familial one, we are not yet "sons" in the legal sense, that of becoming an 'heir', as I pointed out in my previous post answering Linda64.Not yet "adopted", as I pointed out above, (and there is no Scripture that says this, to my knowledge), although it is already assured. Take it as it comes along. Like "spiritual maturity", it is not instantaneous with salvation, but it'll (and hopefully 'maturity' as well) soon be there.
Ed
On this we agree, and that fully. No one "goes to hell" to pay for his sins, but because he or she has "believed not" or "disbelieved" in the name of the only begotten son of God. (John 3:16-18) That is why Scripture says not that they will "be condemned", but they are "condemned already".His Blood Spoke My Name said:
Ed
J Jump,
I said...
And you said...
You've never heard the saying "How many Angels can dance on the tip of a needle"?
Its something christians say regarding people who nit-pick things so much that they get to where they cant see the obvious. You seem to be making a "mountain out of a molehill" here. Complicating something to such an extent that you can't see something that is so simple.
Mike
I said...
And you said...
You've never heard the saying "How many Angels can dance on the tip of a needle"?
Its something christians say regarding people who nit-pick things so much that they get to where they cant see the obvious. You seem to be making a "mountain out of a molehill" here. Complicating something to such an extent that you can't see something that is so simple.
Mike