Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)

[Scarlett O.]

Here is an interesting thought. If we are forgiven of ALL our sins past, present and future, how does justice fit into our sins that we commit as a Christian?

Yes, for the Christian, all of our sins are paid for.....all of them.

How is does justice fit in if we still sin?

We still pay the consequences of our sin. Others may pay consequences of our sin. Our relationship with God is hindered. Our prayers are hindered. We become ineffective for the cause of Christ. We do not grow in Christ. We still reap what we sow.

I mean it would seem a "Christian" can do what he wants to do without much worry about being punished...yeah he will have rewards taken away and suffer natural consequences maybe , so what? What is that compared to spending eternity in Heaven where there will be no more sorrow, pain or anything bad.

Oh, my! Be very careful TBLADY. That's exactly what the devil want Christians to believe.

Here's what the bible says that directly counters what you say.

Romans 5:19 - 6:5 (My paraphrasing, if you don't mind)

• 5:19 - Adam's disobedience made us all sinners. Jesus Christ's obedience provides for us to be saved.
• 5:20 - God created the "law" so that we could see what sin was and how sinful we are. But God's grace is superior to the law and more abundant than the law.
• 5:21 - Sin has the power to bring about death. Grace, through righteousness, brings about eternal life.
• 6:1 - So....is it OK for the Christian to just keep on sinning because, hey, God's just gonna forgive us anyway? So what does it matter if we sin or not? His grace is more powerful than our sin, so.....so what if we sin?
• 6:2 - GOD FORBID if we have such an attitude! If we are supposedly "dead" to sin, then how can it reign over us anymore?
• 6:3 - Or is it that you have simply forgotten......to be saved means that you have "died" with Jesus Christ. That's what your baptism depicts. Your death to sin.
• 6:4 - And just like Jesus Christ was resurrected, then after we are saved we will act like new people....resurrected from sin.
• 6:5 - For if we are going to claim to have "died" with Christ and call ourselves "saved", then we are going to also have to claim, by our actions, that we have been "resurrected", too. Being saved will change our behavior.

Sure doesn't seem fair to the unbeliever who lived a moral, upstanding life...does it?

Oh, TBLADY, I don't want fairness from God. I want His mercy!

If this doesn't seem fair, then it's because the moral and upstanding life of ANY of us, believers or non-believers counts for nothing in terms of eternal salvation. We are to behave in a moral and decent manner, but any moral nature or decency that we display has no bearing on making us presentable before Almighty God.

The bible says that the very best that we can do is as filthy rags before God. So the most kind and benevolent and moral people in this world who would never hurt a flea and give all that they had to make this world a better place cannot touch the righteous and holiness of God.

Our best and His holiness cannot be compared. And the bible says that there are "none righteous...no not one."

 

[dan e.]

Can you be a Christian AND a Yankees fan?? I think not.

 

[Accountable]

Scarlett,

What I am saying is if one is convicted of a sin by the Holy Ghost when one places his or her trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, there is remission for those sins one is convicted of.

One who has been convicted of certain sins will not commit those same sins after conviction... else there was no true conviction.

The Spirit will remind that one that it is sin and that person will not commit it.

1. Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledhe of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

2. You say "the Spirit will remind that one that it is sin and that person will not commit it." Could you provide one verse that will confirm your statement?

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Accountable]

Here is an interesting thought. If we are forgiven of ALL our sins past, present and future, how does justice fit into our sins that we commit as a Christian?

I mean it would seem a "Christian" can do what he wants to do without much worry about being punished...yeah he will have rewards taken away and suffer natural consequences maybe , so what? What is that compared to spending eternity in Heaven where there will be no more sorrow, pain or anything bad.

Sure doesn't seem fair to the unbeliever who lived a moral, upstanding life...does it?

TBLADY, With concern I ask you to reconsider your statement. Starting with your first statement, the Bible says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." Hebrews 9:27
All men will be judged.

2nd statement. So what? So what? So I want to hear "Well done my child." Your eyes are affixed to eternity when you have passed over at least 1,007 years you need to be concerned with before you will ever see eternity. You don't go to your mansion when you die and its all over. Eternity is not yet in view. The cloc is still ticking. There will still be at least 7 years of Great Tribulation and the Kingdom (1,000 year Reign) before the "New City" is even seen. To tae your view, one must completely ignore any and all warning verses in the Epistles given to the Believers.


Please consider this. It will not be a simple loss of a reward.As I Corinthians says, one will suffer loss.

 

[tinytim]

Many who think they are Christian and still advocate a 'liberty to sin' will find they never really knew Christ, nor He them.

And those that don't trust Christ fully for Salvation will split Hell wide open..

You have a choice of 2 ways to pay for your sins...

1) You depend on yourself... and pay for your sins eternally in the Lake of Fire...

or

2) You depend on the Finished work of Christ on Calvary... And Jesus pays for your sins...

The choice is yours...


As for where the justice is?
It was on the cross...

Where is the justice when Jeffrey Dahmer got saved on his death bed?
Christ paid for his sins...all of them...

Where is the justice when I got saved when I was 8 yrs old?...
Christ paid for my sins... all of them.

If he didn't pay for the sins I commit after I was saved, then who does?
That would make his blood null and void.
If His blood only took care of my past sins... then my future sins will keep me out of Heaven.. so his sacrifice would then be worthless...

If I have to obtain his blood on an installment plan.. a little here, a little there... and it depends on ME to ask him for it, everytime I sin... I am depending on my works, and not His grace.

Other wise, Christ would have to be crucified afresh everytime someone sinned...
That is why Hebrews says in Chapter 10 that Christ was crucified once and for all...


When a person gets saved, they are a new creature.. Thier want tos change.. they don't desire to sin. And when we do, we are sickened.

But Christ paid for all of my sins...
I am forgiven...

but consequences are something else...
If I was an alcoholic for 40 yrs, get saved...Christ forgives me.. but I still may die from liver disease... That is a natural consequence that God built into alcoholism...

 

[rbell]

Scarlett,

What I am saying is if one is convicted of a sin by the Holy Ghost when one places his or her trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, there is remission for those sins one is convicted of.

One who has been convicted of certain sins will not commit those same sins after conviction... else there was no true conviction.

The Spirit will remind that one that it is sin and that person will not commit it.

I'm glad you're not questioning my salvation...

 

[tinytim]

Scarlett,

What I am saying is if one is convicted of a sin by the Holy Ghost when one places his or her trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, there is remission for those sins one is convicted of.

One who has been convicted of certain sins will not commit those same sins after conviction... else there was no true conviction.

The Spirit will remind that one that it is sin and that person will not commit it.

So if I drive 66 in a 65 zone on Monday, and ask God to forgive me, then on Tuesday I drive 66 again, I didn't mean it when I asked God to forgive me on Monday?

So in other words, when a person asks God to forgive them for a certain sin, say lying, then we become vacinated against that sin, and therefore will never commit it again?

So if I am proudful over something one day, ask God to forgive me, I will never be proud again?

If I lust one day, and ask God to forgive me, I will never lust again...

I guess Paul never heared of this... after all he admitted in the Bible that he struggled with sin... If only you were around to let him know of this great revelation you have, he could have asked God to forgive him for what he did that he wished he didn't do... so for the rest of his life, he would have been vaccinated against sin....

It must be nice to be perfect....
nah...
The only man that ever was, was crucified...What a painful way to go...

All because WE SIN!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

And those that don't trust Christ fully for Salvation will split Hell wide open..

You have a choice of 2 ways to pay for your sins...

1) You depend on yourself... and pay for your sins eternally in the Lake of Fire...

or

2) You depend on the Finished work of Christ on Calvary... And Jesus pays for your sins...

The choice is yours...


As for where the justice is?
It was on the cross...

Where is the justice when Jeffrey Dahmer got saved on his death bed?
Christ paid for his sins...all of them...

Where is the justice when I got saved when I was 8 yrs old?...
Christ paid for my sins... all of them.

If he didn't pay for the sins I commit after I was saved, then who does?
That would make his blood null and void.
If His blood only took care of my past sins... then my future sins will keep me out of Heaven.. so his sacrifice would then be worthless...

If I have to obtain his blood on an installment plan.. a little here, a little there... and it depends on ME to ask him for it, everytime I sin... I am depending on my works, and not His grace.

Other wise, Christ would have to be crucified afresh everytime someone sinned...
That is why Hebrews says in Chapter 10 that Christ was crucified once and for all...


When a person gets saved, they are a new creature.. Thier want tos change.. they don't desire to sin. And when we do, we are sickened.

But Christ paid for all of my sins...
I am forgiven...

but consequences are something else...
If I was an alcoholic for 40 yrs, get saved...Christ forgives me.. but I still may die from liver disease... That is a natural consequence that God built into alcoholism...

The sins of the world have already been paid for, tim. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for mankind at Calvary. If one goes to hell, it is not to pay for his or her sins... it is because they rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[Scarlett O.]

So in other words, when a person asks God to forgive them for a certain sin, say lying, then we become vacinated against that sin, and therefore will never commit it again?

So if I am proudful over something one day, ask God to forgive me, I will never be proud again?

If I lust one day, and ask God to forgive me, I will never lust again...

I guess Paul never heared of this... after all he admitted in the Bible that he struggled with sin... If only you were around to let him know of this great revelation you have, he could have asked God to forgive him for what he did that he wished he didn't do... so for the rest of his life, he would have been vaccinated against sin....

Score one point for tinytim. :thumbs:

 

[Scarlett O.]

The sins of the world have already been paid for, tim. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for mankind at Calvary. If one goes to hell, it is not to pay for his or her sins... it is because they rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Score one point for His Blood Spoke My Name. :thumbs:

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If a person is not truly sorry for those sins then God never hears the prayer for forgiveness in the first place.

If I regard iniquity in mine heart the Lord will not hear me. Psalm 66:18

One can say one is sorry for one's sins, but if one is not convicted one is not truly sorry.

 

[tinytim]

The sins of the world have already been paid for, tim. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for mankind at Calvary. If one goes to hell, it is not to pay for his or her sins... it is because they rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

The wages of sin is death...

If you sin, you are sentenced to death ( seperation from God)

Now you can either do that...
or you can trust in Christ's payment on the cross...

Sure Jesus died for the sins of the world.. but his payment means nothing to you unless it is applied to your account...

At that point, your sins are paid for by Christ...
If his payment is never applied to your account, then you still have a sin debt that you have to take care of...

Now Calvinists says that the payment was applied at Calvary...
Free willers say it was applied the moment you get saved...

I really don't care, as long as when I die... Christ has paid my sin debt...

I am trusting him for that...

 

[Brother Bob]

I really don't care, as long as when I die... Christ has paid my sin debt...

I doubt if you mean that Tim? You need to know what to preach and teach the world don't you?

The price paid for our sins was the blood of Jesus Christ, which He presented to the Father for all sin. If you never "believe" and have that blood applied to your case, then you just plain lose out.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The sin debt has been paid for. You can pay no more for your sins, else Christ's blood was not sufficient.

If you end up in hell it is not because you must pay for your sins... it is because of your rejecting Christ.

 

[tinytim]

I doubt if you mean that Tim? You need to know what to preach and teach the world don't you?

The price paid for our sins was the blood of Jesus Christ, which He presented to the Father for all sin. If you never "believe" and have that blood applied to your case, then you just plain lose out.

I meant I didn't care whether you look at it through the lens of calvinism or free will... the result will be the same..

Christ died for my sins...

That is the most important.:wavey:

Now when we get to secondary issues.. I sure do care...
I was raised a Calvinist... and have moved away somewhat.. but not completely free will... so I can see the truth in both..but that is for another debate...

 

[tinytim]

The sin debt has been paid for. You can pay no more for your sins, else Christ's blood was not sufficient.

If you end up in hell it is not because you must pay for your sins... it is because of your rejecting Christ.

I agree to a point.. .let's see..

The sin debt has been paid for... yep
You can pay no more for your sins.... yep.. to a degree... it does cost you an eternity in Hell.. (being poetic here...I know you can't pay it off)
If you end up in hell it is not because you must pay for your sins...it is because of your rejecting Christ. ....Yep.

 

[Amy.G]

If you end up in hell it is not because you must pay for your sins... it is because of your rejecting Christ.

I disagree with this statement. You end up in hell (lake of fire) because IF you reject Christ, you still owe the debt for your sin. The wages of sin is death (eternal) and if you haven't accepted Christ as your savior, Who DID pay the debt, you still owe it. When an unbeliever stands before God in the judgement, he has a huge debt to pay, because he rejected the only payment that God will accept.....the righteousness of Jesus.
So, if you end up in hell, it IS because you must pay for your sins.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Wrong, Amy. The debt was paid for all sins on Calvary.

Not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.

 

[TBLADY]

I think some are missing my intended point.

I have seen many a Christian, lets take those who are in leadership, get away with stuff a lay man never would. I am sure if they keep it up long enough there will be consequences, but for a long time they get protected and because of that feel they have gotten away with their sin. Even if people know or hear the truth about what they have done, they always have their followers who worship them no mater what!

Now take someone who isn't sinning yet has no power over someone who may not like them (for whatever reason) or who takes advantage of them, who is in leadership or who is favored and they get treated like the bad guy, when it is actually the other way around. Doesn't seem fair does it?

Doesn't seem fair that Christians live like or worse than the unsaved, yet go to Heaven, while many people who are unsaved, live upright and even treat Christians better than God's people.. Yet they go to Hell.

I understand all about salvation and forgiveness and all....just doesn't seem fair!

As a new believer I was deceived into thinking Christians acted differently than the unsaved...but after 22 years, my eyes are now wide open and shocked!

And as you probably can tell CONFUSED!

 

[Amy.G]

Wrong, Amy. The debt was paid for all sins on Calvary.

Not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.

I sure do hear that a lot! "Wrong Amy". :laugh:

I did not say that Jesus did not pay the debt for all sins. I said that if a person rejects that payment and doesn't "believe", they still owe the debt. That's just my interpretation. But hey, I'm obviously wrong a lot of the time.