Can You Prove that God exists?

[Charles Meadows]

To PROVE something means that there must be some separate truth against which it can be verified.

To claim to be able to prove God is to claim that human logic and knowledge are a given truth against which God can be judged.

That whole concept is inconsistent with the idea of an God as the Bible describes Him. God is because He is - not because we can "prove" Him.

 

[Amy.G]

If it's raining there I can

Webdog, shortly after you posted this, it started raining. (twilight zone music is playing in the background.)

:laugh:

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello JD.

I think a reasoned argument is easier for us and I think people can be persuaded that our argument has more merit than the atheist.
We say God created the universe and they do not know how the universe came into being. There really can be only predudice that makes a person disbelieve in God. At least an open minded atheist should be convinced that being agnostic is a more reasonable position to take or at least it will show that both sides hang on nothing tangible, that both beliefs are valid or both are not.



HEB 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

Can one be certain of anything unproved?

Challenge an atheist to ask Jesus to reveal Himself to them. If they refuse to look we are entitled to claim they do not examine our evidence. All one is asking them to do is to talk into the air, it is not an admission by them that they believe God exists. I was saved in this way.

john.

John,

I agree with what you have said. I address this more then any other subject when I write. My take is very close to yours. I can not prove God, but I can show anyone that you must have more faith to not believe in God, then to believe in God.

Atheist numbers are growing or it seems that way to me. Atheist and agnostic supress the truth and it is clear to me, that they have never placed their ideas to the test. So...as you know I like to play the logic game...I see to it that they test those ideas.

Atheist are well versed in attacking God. We, as believers, spend most of out time defending God. I do not feel God needs defended to an atheist attacks. God never tries to prove Himself. He states it as a matter of fact..."In the beginning God"...and then goes from there. Christ never defended Himself. People seem to believe what they want to believe. So I attack their system of no-God, and most of the time this works. Their system is a house of cards and weak cards at that.

If the person is close to me, I always ask why do you want to debate me on this? If its just to debate, I do not waste my time. I cannot prove God.

But if it seems they really want to know then talk with them

Who said..."I believe to Know"..? well..that is kinda like all of us. But if we seek to know in order to believe....we will never believe...for God cannot be proved.

I like to draw a circle and ask them what they know to be true and what they "believe". What they know to be true is placed in the circle, and all other stuff is placed in believing...or outside the circle. After about 5-6 qustains it becomes clear to them, they live in faith....just as I do. Then I rip off a few facts that we all know to be true, that supports a higher Being other then man. This Being is God.

 

[DQuixote]

swaimj, I wish you would drop in more often. You often offer some excellent insights. I appreciate brevity, as well.

As to the OP, I hear my mother sing that old revival hymn,

"He's real, He's real, O I know that He's real......."

I see her smile, I hear her joy. I see me about two feet tall looking up at her. She proved it to me.

"Precious memories, how they linger......."

:godisgood:

 

[J.D.]

Can anyone prove He don't exist?

No. And that's partly the reason that the argument against atheism is a stalemate.

 

[J.D.]

I havent been able to watch the video yet, except for Ray Comforts first presentation. But I don't think that a Christian will ever look like anything else to the world.

1 Corinthians 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I don't believe your definition of faith is in any way accurate. There is much logical proof for the existence of God. That is the definition that the atheists want you to accept for faith. As Ray pointed out, the very fact of creation is evidence of a creator. In the absence of a valid mechanism for producing a creation without a creator, it would seem to be the obvious explanation by default.

I agree that creation is evidence of a creator. But to an atheist, it's just the opposite. They use that same evidence as "proof" against God's existence. If empirical evidence is your basis of proof, then why is God himself not visible and empirically provable?

 

[J.D.]

John,

I agree with what you have said. I address this more then any other subject when I write. My take is very close to yours. I can not prove God, but I can show anyone that you must have more faith to not believe in God, then to believe in God.

Atheist numbers are growing or it seems that way to me. Atheist and agnostic supress the truth and it is clear to me, that they have never placed their ideas to the test. So...as you know I like to play the logic game...I see to it that they test those ideas.

Atheist are well versed in attacking God. We, as believers, spend most of out time defending God. I do not feel God needs defended to an atheist attacks. God never tries to prove Himself. He states it as a matter of fact..."In the beginning God"...and then goes from there. Christ never defended Himself. People seem to believe what they want to believe. So I attack their system of no-God, and most of the time this works. Their system is a house of cards and weak cards at that.

If the person is close to me, I always ask why do you want to debate me on this? If its just to debate, I do not waste my time. I cannot prove God.

But if it seems they really want to know then talk with them

Who said..."I believe to Know"..? well..that is kinda like all of us. But if we seek to know in order to believe....we will never believe...for God cannot be proved.

I like to draw a circle and ask them what they know to be true and what they "believe". What they know to be true is placed in the circle, and all other stuff is placed in believing...or outside the circle. After about 5-6 qustains it becomes clear to them, they live in faith....just as I do. Then I rip off a few facts that we all know to be true, that supports a higher Being other then man. This Being is God.

James and JohnP - I agree. Evidentialists appeal to nature, science, reason, logic. The only position that can be reached based on those factors is agnosticism.

However, although we can't convince a determined atheist, we can nevertheless show him his own "presuppositions" he relies on to defend his system. The best results of the Theism vs atheism debate is mutual defeat.

We presuppose that some people have faith, and some don't.

Now if there is any proof available for the existence of God for the atheist to see, I think it would be in their own vehement hatred of the God they say does not exist. How can you hate an entity that does not exist?

If you saw the nightline episode, there was one atheist lady that literally nashed her teeth as she spewed out the typical atheist charge against God - "If there is a God, whey do people get cancer?" My response would be - "If there is no God, who are you angry at, woman?"

It's been said that no one is truely an atheist. I think in a sense that's true. I think an atheist is a person that hates God, and simply denies His existence as a display of that hatred.

A person that hates God finds any offer of salvation repulsive. How can that person ever be saved?

 

[Filmproducer]

I don't believe your definition of faith is in any way accurate. There is much logical proof for the existence of God. That is the definition that the atheists want you to accept for faith. As Ray pointed out, the very fact of creation is evidence of a creator. In the absence of a valid mechanism for producing a creation without a creator, it would seem to be the obvious explanation by default.

Just what exactly is your definition of faith? Faith is belief in the evidence of things unseen? Not much LOGICAL proof in that. Creation and the creator is a basis for our faith, but it is in no means a proof that our God exists. We have no logical proof or physical evidence that our God is the creator of all. We accept this notion on the basis of faith alone. Whose to say that some other group could not seek to prove their diety is the creator of all? Again the foundation of our belief system is in faith alone. I find it disheartening that some Christians do not feel that faith alone is sufficient explanation for our belief in God. We need to stop trying to rationalize the existence of God and/or our beliefs. The notion is absurd in and of itself. Look at the example of Abraham. As absurd as his faith may have seemed, especially his willingness to sacrifice Issaac, to the outside world, he was still a great man of God, an example to us all. Faith is not meant to be rational. It is not meant to make sense. God does not want us to rationalize Him or the path He lays at our feet. He wants to accept Him totally and unconditionally by our faith ALONE.

 

[Andy T.]

Filmproducer,

You are confusing "logical" with "scientific." No, we cannot prove the existense of God "scientifically." Neither can the atheist prove his position scientifically. But the arguments for the existence of God are not illogical. Certainly all scientific arguments have to be logical. But not all logic has to be scientific (as the materialist/naturalist/atheist will try to claim based on his own worldview).

 

[Filmproducer]

Filmproducer,

You are confusing "logical" with "scientific." No, we cannot prove the existense of God "scientifically." Neither can the atheist prove his position scientifically. But the arguments for the existence of God are not illogical. Certainly all scientific arguments have to be logical. But not all logic has to be scientific (as the materialist/naturalist/atheist will try to claim based on his own worldview).

No actually I am not, re-read my response again. We are using our faith to prove the existence of God, something that cannot logically be done. Look up the definition of faith, not to mention that of proof. It, (faith), is in essence a trust/belief in something for which there is no logical proof. Of course there can be logical arguments outside of the scientific realm, but that does not negate the fact that logical arguments must stem from fact and/or rational thought and sensible, i.e., correct reasoning. No one, especially not myself, is claiming that atheists can prove God does not exist. Technically neither side can prove God's existence one way or another, so it is a moot point. So tell me how exactly one is to go about proving faith? The idea is absurd in and of itself.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Nope........... No one comes to the Son except that the Father draws him.

I don't think God expects us to convince anyone of His existence. We are to present the gospel and God does the rest.

Well said, AmyG.
Thank you.

 

[saturneptune]

From early Romans, there is enough inner curiosity or sense to know that God does exist. Lots of people say there is no God, but I think very few really believe that. Most just dont care.

There is a big difference in not believing the Gospel and not believing God exists. The problem the atheists have, if one uses common sense (it doesnt have to be logical or some grand theory), is that they cannot grasp the concept of a point of origin for all that is around us.

 

[Deacon]

My co-worker has been reading "The God Delusion" by the evangelical atheist Richard Dawkins.
Sadly, it feeds his need for an assurance that there is no God.

While I agree that there are no scientific proofs for God, I obviously consider the evidence and the reasons to believe overwhelmingly in God's favor.

My approach to him recently has had more of a philosophical bent, via hope and faith.

I think it was Thomas Aquinas that said, 'If I believe and God doesn't exist, then I have lost nothing.
If he exists and I don't believe, then I have lost everything.'

Amy: Can you prove I won't wash my car today?
Me: No, but I can prove you won't wash your car tomorrow.
Amy: How so, oh great prognostocator?
Me: Ahhh, ask me tomorrow.

....by the way Amy, it's still today. :laugh:

Rob

 

[Amy.G]

Amy: Can you prove I won't wash my car today?
Me: No, but I can prove you won't wash your car tomorrow.
Amy: How so, oh great prognostocator?
Me: Ahhh, ask me tomorrow.

....by the way Amy, it's still today. :laugh:

Rob

Right you are! Tomorrow never comes!
And I didn't wash my car today either. It rained. :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

From early Romans, there is enough inner curiosity or sense to know that God does exist. Lots of people say there is no God, but I think very few really believe that. Most just dont care.

There is a big difference in not believing the Gospel and not believing God exists. The problem the atheists have, if one uses common sense (it doesnt have to be logical or some grand theory), is that they cannot grasp the concept of a point of origin for all that is around us.

I think the problem with atheists is the same as the rest of us. Pride. Atheists seem to be more vocal though about their self suffeciency and lack of a need for God. IMHO.

 

[Filmproducer]

My co-worker has been reading "The God Delusion" by the evangelical atheist Richard Dawkins.
Sadly, it feeds his need for an assurance that there is no God.

While I agree that there are no scientific proofs for God, I obviously consider the evidence and the reasons to believe overwhelmingly in God's favor.

My approach to him recently has had more of a philosophical bent, via hope and faith.

I think it was Thomas Aquinas that said, 'If I believe and God doesn't exist, then I have lost nothing.
If he exists and I don't believe, then I have lost everthing.'

I agree with you.

If you are approaching your friend from a more philosophical bent, might I suggest the writings of Soren Kierkegaard. As a respected "secular" philosopher (existentialist to be exact), and a Christian, he has some of the best writings concerning faith, and what it truly means to live by faith, especially as a Christian. His discourse on Abraham in Fear and Trembling is particularily enjoyable. I have brought up Kierkegaard with many athiests I know who love to use, albeit incorrectly, another existential philosopher, (Nietzche), to further their own cause, and it has led to some very fruitful discussions.

 

[Brother Bob]

Can You Prove that God exists?
Maybe not, but God can.

I think scripture teaches that at one time in everyone's life, they were taught there is a God, by His Grace. I don't care how much they deny it.

 

[mima]

Any rational man that will look at the prophecy offered in the Bible will be forced to conclude that the Bible is true. Winston Churchill was once asked, did he believe in God. Yes he said I do. Well where it is your proof the other party ask?: I think the Jewish people and their history prove the existence of God was his answer. What an interesting statement the old man made.

 

[James_Newman]

Just what exactly is your definition of faith? Faith is belief in the evidence of things unseen? Not much LOGICAL proof in that. Creation and the creator is a basis for our faith, but it is in no means a proof that our God exists. We have no logical proof or physical evidence that our God is the creator of all. We accept this notion on the basis of faith alone. Whose to say that some other group could not seek to prove their diety is the creator of all? Again the foundation of our belief system is in faith alone. I find it disheartening that some Christians do not feel that faith alone is sufficient explanation for our belief in God. We need to stop trying to rationalize the existence of God and/or our beliefs. The notion is absurd in and of itself. Look at the example of Abraham. As absurd as his faith may have seemed, especially his willingness to sacrifice Issaac, to the outside world, he was still a great man of God, an example to us all. Faith is not meant to be rational. It is not meant to make sense. God does not want us to rationalize Him or the path He lays at our feet. He wants to accept Him totally and unconditionally by our faith ALONE.

What is disheartening about knowing why I believe in God? Faith without evidence is not faith, it is presumption. Why can't I just have faith in the flying spaghetti monster? Wouldn't that be just as rational as believing in the God of the Bible? If I am supposed to have faith according to the atheist idea that faith is belief without any evidence, then yes it would be just as rational, which would be not rational at all. The evidence that I have which outweighs any evidence to the contrary is the Bible itself and its divine prophecy. No other book can make the claims that the Bible does and back it up.

Isaiah 41:21-24
21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22 Let them bring them forth, and show us what shall happen: let them show the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of naught: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

In these last days, the fact that there is a nation of Israel in their land making preparations to rebuild their temple, and with the stage being set for a one world government, ought to set any reasonable man to trembling before God.

But this also is foretold.

2 Peter 3:3-4
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[Lou Martuneac]

Look Out the Window

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork," (Psalm 19:1).

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse," (Romans 1:20).

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God," (2 Tim. 3:16).

That is enough proof!

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," (Psalm 14:1).

LM

In Defense of the Gospel