Can you spot the Trinity?

[Yeshua1]

I admit that I don't see the problem.
All one has to do is believe these words, and it should become readily apparent Who is being spoken of here:

" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." ( 1 John 5:7 ).
Three persons, One God, Jesus is in the Godhead, but NOT the Godhead is in Jesus!
To me, this is the clearest passage in all the Scriptures that conveys Who the Godhead is, although there are several others that do it nearly as well.

Is the Father and Holy Spirit also in the Godhead?

 

[Yeshua1]

Congrats. Some I've dealt with cannot see the Trinity in the passages. These were all cult members according to the historic creeds.

Creeds and Confessions not inspired!

 

[Yeshua1]

This is incorrect. In fact it is a heresy.

It is indeed!

 

[Yeshua1]

RANK HERESY!

Its either Oneness or Modualism heresy!

 

[Yeshua1]

In the Greek translation, kyrios was used to render the divine name Yahweh (יהוה‎, yhwh). Thus it became possible to transfer to Jesus statements that were attributed in the Old Testament to God.



Ramos, A. (2016). Jesus Christ, Titles of. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

NONE here denying jesus is God, but that he is the ONLY person called God!

 

[Yeshua1]

No Scripture isn't heresy, your understanding is. You are not Scripture.

You need to read what the Trinity is. what you are stating is not the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is the doctrine as per TD jakes or Oneness Pentacostals!

 

[Yeshua1]

The doctrine of the trinity can be found in the ecumenical creeds. What I posted alludes to the trinity in each verse. Can you spot the trinity in them?

We can, but not your understanding of it!

 

[Yeshua1]

In Psalm 110:1, 5, you have TWO distinct Persons Who are equally called YHWH

"YHWH said to My Lord, Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as Your footstool...YHWH at Your Right Hand"

We have the first YHWH Who is the Father. Then we have ADONI, My Lord, which is also a Name used for Almighty God in the Old Testament, here used for Jesus Christ. In verse 5, according to at least 20 Hebrew MT manuscripts by the Jews, instead of ADON, have YHWH. This makes the ADONI of verse 1, YHWH, which makes TWO Persons Who are equally called YHWH.

In Isaiah 48:16, we have YHWH as the Speaker, Who says that, He and the Holy Spirit, were sent by “Adonay YHWH”

In 2 Samuel 23:2, we have a very clear reference where The Holy Spirit is called YHWH:

“The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me (heb., דִּבֶּר־בִּי, is masculine); His word (heb. וּמִלָּתוֹ , is feminine, lit, “Her word”) is on my tongue. The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me”

We would have expected “אֶת־דְּבָרוֹ”, the masculine, “His word”, which would agree with “יהוה” (YHWH), which is masculine. However, with the use of the feminine, “וּמִלָּתוֹ”, it is clear that The Spirit is meant, so that “The Spirit of the Lord”, IS the subject, and refers to One, and not two Persons. It is "His Word”, that is, The Spirit’s, that is on the tongue of David. The following words also belong to the Spirit, Who is also called “The God of Israel”, and “the Rock of Israel”. Very clear testimony to the full Deity of the Holy Spirit.

Here we have THREE distinct Persons in the Old Testament, Who are equally Almighty God

The Father also called Jesus God in Hebrews 1!

 

[Yeshua1]

And God's name in the NT is Jesus Christ. Heresy is when you say Jesus isn't God.

NONE here are saying that, but how you view God is heresy!

 

[Yeshua1]

You are confused by Oneness. Stick with the Bible and the trinity doctrine. You'll grasp much more.

How you are stating trinity is either Oneness or Modualism!

 

[Dave G]

That passage does not fit it in any way 1 John 5:9, how God Himself is a greater witness. 1 John 5:9-12.

To me, it fits perfectly:

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." ( 1 John 5:1-13, AV, verse numbers removed ).

It tells me that there are Three that bear record in Heaven, and three that bear witness in earth.
Focusing in on the 3 that bear record in Heaven, I clearly see that the Father is mentioned, then the Word ( Jesus Christ, the word made flesh from John 1:14 ), then the Holy Ghost.

Putting that together with other statements that God's word makes,
I clearly see the Godhead from Romans 1:18-20 is declared, and Matthew 28:19 is also unmistakably speaking of the same:

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: "

I'm not sure how anyone can miss it...
But, I also recognize that you are free to disagree with me as you see fit.

May God bless you, sir.

 

[Dave G]

Jesus Christ is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I see that Jesus Christ, Emmanuel / Immanuel or "God is with us" is not the name of the Father, nor is it the name of the Holy Ghost, my friend.
They are separate-yet-equal, and They are God.

Jesus Christ is God in-carnate ( man ), come in the flesh.
The Father remained in Heaven when the Lord Jesus came the first time, and the Holy Spirit came and went as the Godhead willed.

 

[SavedByGrace]

To me, it fits perfectly:

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." ( 1 John 5:1-13, AV, verse numbers removed ).

It tells me that there are Three that bear record in Heaven, and three that bear witness in earth.
Focusing in on the 3 that bear record in Heaven, I clearly see that the Father is mentioned, then the Word ( Jesus Christ, the word made flesh from John 1:14 ), then the Holy Ghost.

Putting that together with other statements that God's word makes,
I clearly see the Godhead from Romans 1:18-20 is declared, and Matthew 28:19 is also unmistakably speaking of the same:

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: "

I'm not sure how anyone can miss it...
But, I also recognize that you are free to disagree with me as you see fit.

May God bless you, sir.

so you believe that 1 John 5:7, as in the KJV is part of the original Epistle of John, even though it is not in any Greek manuscript for the first 14-15 centuries, and omitted in almost every English Version post KJV?

 

[Yeshua1]

To me, it fits perfectly:

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." ( 1 John 5:1-13, AV, verse numbers removed ).

It tells me that there are Three that bear record in Heaven, and three that bear witness in earth.
Focusing in on the 3 that bear record in Heaven, I clearly see that the Father is mentioned, then the Word ( Jesus Christ, the word made flesh from John 1:14 ), then the Holy Ghost.

Putting that together with other statements that God's word makes,
I clearly see the Godhead from Romans 1:18-20 is declared, and Matthew 28:19 is also unmistakably speaking of the same:

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: "

I'm not sure how anyone can miss it...
But, I also recognize that you are free to disagree with me as you see fit.

May God bless you, sir.

Are there 3 Persons called God then, or is Jesus all 3 named there Himself?

 

[Dave G]

Are there 3 Persons called God then, or is Jesus all 3 named there Himself?

The way I understand the Scriptures,
the Lord is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit...
Three distinct Persons all agreeing in one.

Not "Modalism", but the Godhead, Dave.

Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ,
the Father is the Father,
and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for His people, just as the Scriptures declare...
Until He comes again.

All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, just as the Scriptures declare.

God the Father reigns in Heaven, sent the Lord Jesus to atone for the sins of His people, and sits over the circle of the earth, just as the Bible says.

 

[37818]

To me, it fits perfectly: . . .

No one on Earth hears "in heaven." But God Himself is the greater witness, Romans 8:16 [1 John 5:9-12].

 

[Dave G]

so you believe that 1 John 5:7, as in the KJV is part of the original Epistle of John,

Yes I do, and I do so unreservedly and with full conviction...
and respectfully, nothing that anyone can tell me will ever convince me that those are not God's words, inspired by Him and which the apostle John wrote under that same inspiration.

Here they are in English, Spanish, French, German and Italian for comparison ( and for those who read those languages ), my friend:

" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." ( 1 John 5:7, KJV ).
" For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." ( 1 John 5:7, NKJV ) .

" Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo, el Padre, el Verbo, y el Espíritu Santo: y estos tres son uno." ( 1 John 5:7, RVA ).

" Car il y en a trois dans le Ciel qui rendent témoignage, le Père, la Parole, et le Saint-Esprit; et ces trois-là ne sont qu'un." ( 1 John 5:7, Martin 1744 ).
" Car ils sont trois qui rendent témoignage dans le ciel : le Père, le Verbe et l’Esprit-Saint ; et ces trois sont une seule chose." ( 1 John 5:7, Louis Segond 1905 ).

" Denn drei sind, die da zeugen im Himmel: der Vater, das Wort und der Heilige Geist; und diese drei sind eins." ( 1 John 5:7 German Modernized )

"Perciocchè tre son quelli che testimoniano nel cielo: il Padre, e la Parola, e lo Spirito Santo; e questi tre sono una stessa cosa." ( 1 John 5:7, Giovanni Diodati 1649 ).


" οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν" <----- That is God's word.

Interlinear Bible: 1 John 5:7 - Textus Receptus Bibles

To me, the words, when carefully examined, clearly describe the "Trinity" in no uncertain terms;
I've also always known that they were God's words, and I have no doubt in my mind that they are written in Heaven the same way.


Good evening to you, sir.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes I do,
and respectfully, nothing that you can tell me will ever convince me that those are not God's words, inspired by Him and which the apostle John wrote at His behest.

" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." ( 1 John 5:7, KJV ).
" For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." ( 1 John 5:7, NKJV )

" οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν" <----- That is God's word.

Interlinear Bible: 1 John 5:7 - Textus Receptus Bibles



Good evening to you, sir.

I asked because the majority here on BB do not accept verse 7 as genuine. I for one most certainly believe that the Words are part of the original Letter of John. And did a thread about this

The Holy Trinity in 1 John 5:7

 

[37818]

If it were original ". . . For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. . . ." The only ones who would have that witness would be solely in heaven. For what? God and His angels do not need it. Man does.
Philosophical and Biblical Trinity of God.

 

[Silverhair]

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven ...

It is never quoted by the Greek fathers in their controversies on the doctrine of the Trinity - a passage which would be so much in point, and which could not have failed to be quoted if it were genuine; and it is not referred to by the Latin fathers until the time of Vigilius, at the end of the 5th century. If the passage were believed to be genuine - nay, if it were known at all to be in existence, and to have any probability in its favor - it is incredible that in all the controversies which occurred in regard to the divine nature, and in all the efforts to define the doctrine of the Trinity, this passage should never have been referred to. But it never was; for it must be plain to anyone who examines the subject with an unbiassed mind, that the passages which are relied on to prove that it was quoted by Athanasius, Cyprian, Augustin, etc., (Wetstein, II., p. 725) are not taken from this place, and are not such as they would have made if they had been acquainted with this passage, and had designed to quote Barnes