-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Capturing the Real Abraham Lincoln
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
</font>[/QUOTE]No, it's NOT creepy. Snopes.com debunked most of this stuff a while ago.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/linckenn.htm
Window Wax
New Member
"If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson
Maryland Congressman Jacob M. Kunkel said, "Any attempt to preserve the Union between the States of this Confederacy by force would be impractical, and destructive of republican liberty."
Lincoln did order the arrest of many leading citizens of Maryland after suspending the writ of habeas corpus, a basic human right dating back to the Magna Carta.
"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office." (September 15, 1858, - campaign speech) "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery." (March 4, 1861, - First Inaugural Address) "I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District of Columbia." ( March 24, 1862, - letter to Horace Greeley) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it." (August 22, 1862, - letter to Horace Greeley, New York Tribune editor)
From the Lincoln Douglas Debates of 1858, "I will say, then, that I am not, nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not nor ever been in favor of making voters of the free Negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, or having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which, I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other white man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man."
As far as Lincoln's views of racial equality is must be remembered that in the famous debates with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln advocated deporting blacks to Africa. As for the great Northern supporters it must be remembered that many of the Northern states had laws that forbade the immigration of free blacks. In fact, it can be argued that many Northerners were not as much opposed to slavery, then to the actual slaves themselves. Several exclusion laws were passed in the North forbidding free blacks from coming into various states. New Jersey, Oregon, Massachusetts, Indiana, and Illinois (do you know where this is, Mr. Lincoln?) all passed various laws to this effect.
Alabama State Sen. Charles Davidson remarked in a speech of May 31, 1996, before the Alabama State Legislature: "Abraham Lincoln, himself, stated the opinion of the Northern people at a meeting with a group of black leaders during the war, when Lincoln said to them 'there is an unwillingness on the part of our people (Northern whites) to live with you free colored people. Whether this is right or wrong, I am not prepared to discuss, but a fact with which we must deal. Therefore, I think it best for us to separate'. Whereupon, Abraham Lincoln and the United States Congress purchased land, passed laws and started shipping free Northern blacks out of the United States down to poverty stricken Haiti. Lincoln put together several such schemes to remove free blacks from the United States, to send some back to Africa and some to Central and South America. At the end of the war, a few weeks before Lincoln was killed, Union Gen. Benjamin Butler asked Lincoln what was he going to do with all the recently freed Southern blacks? Lincoln replied, "I think we should deport them all." Meanwhile, down South, Confederate States President, Jefferson Davis and his wife Varina are adopting an eight year old, free black orphaned boy, named Jim Limber. Also, in St. Louis, when General John Fremont freed slaves of 'disloyal' Missouri Confederates, an angry Lincoln fired him.
:|
-Thomas Jefferson
Maryland Congressman Jacob M. Kunkel said, "Any attempt to preserve the Union between the States of this Confederacy by force would be impractical, and destructive of republican liberty."
Lincoln did order the arrest of many leading citizens of Maryland after suspending the writ of habeas corpus, a basic human right dating back to the Magna Carta.
"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office." (September 15, 1858, - campaign speech) "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery." (March 4, 1861, - First Inaugural Address) "I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District of Columbia." ( March 24, 1862, - letter to Horace Greeley) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it." (August 22, 1862, - letter to Horace Greeley, New York Tribune editor)
From the Lincoln Douglas Debates of 1858, "I will say, then, that I am not, nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not nor ever been in favor of making voters of the free Negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, or having them to marry with white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which, I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other white man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man."
As far as Lincoln's views of racial equality is must be remembered that in the famous debates with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln advocated deporting blacks to Africa. As for the great Northern supporters it must be remembered that many of the Northern states had laws that forbade the immigration of free blacks. In fact, it can be argued that many Northerners were not as much opposed to slavery, then to the actual slaves themselves. Several exclusion laws were passed in the North forbidding free blacks from coming into various states. New Jersey, Oregon, Massachusetts, Indiana, and Illinois (do you know where this is, Mr. Lincoln?) all passed various laws to this effect.
Alabama State Sen. Charles Davidson remarked in a speech of May 31, 1996, before the Alabama State Legislature: "Abraham Lincoln, himself, stated the opinion of the Northern people at a meeting with a group of black leaders during the war, when Lincoln said to them 'there is an unwillingness on the part of our people (Northern whites) to live with you free colored people. Whether this is right or wrong, I am not prepared to discuss, but a fact with which we must deal. Therefore, I think it best for us to separate'. Whereupon, Abraham Lincoln and the United States Congress purchased land, passed laws and started shipping free Northern blacks out of the United States down to poverty stricken Haiti. Lincoln put together several such schemes to remove free blacks from the United States, to send some back to Africa and some to Central and South America. At the end of the war, a few weeks before Lincoln was killed, Union Gen. Benjamin Butler asked Lincoln what was he going to do with all the recently freed Southern blacks? Lincoln replied, "I think we should deport them all." Meanwhile, down South, Confederate States President, Jefferson Davis and his wife Varina are adopting an eight year old, free black orphaned boy, named Jim Limber. Also, in St. Louis, when General John Fremont freed slaves of 'disloyal' Missouri Confederates, an angry Lincoln fired him.
:|
Window Wax
New Member
James G. Randall documented Lincoln's assault on the Constitution in "Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln." Lincoln unconstitutionally suspended the writ of habeas corpus and had the military arrest tens of thousands of Northern political opponents, including dozens of newspaper editors and owners. Some 300 newspapers were shut down and all telegraph communication was censored. Northern elections were rigged; Democratic voters were intimidated by federal soldiers; hundreds of New York City draft protesters were gunned down by federal troops; West Virginia was unconstitutionally carved out of Virginia; and the most outspoken member of the Democratic Party opposition, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, was deported. Duly elected members of the Maryland legislature were imprisoned, as was the mayor of Baltimore and Congressman Henry May. The border states were systematically disarmed in violation of the Second Amendment and private property was confiscated.
Congress announced to the world on July 22, 1861, that the purpose of the war was not "interfering with the rights or established institutions of those states" (i.e., slavery), but to preserve the Union "with the rights of the several states unimpaired." At the time of Fort Sumter (April 12, 1861) only the seven states of the deep South had seceded. There were more slaves in the Union than out of it, and Lincoln had no plans to free any of them.
The North invaded to regain lost federal tax revenue by keeping the Union intact by force of arms. In his First Inaugural Lincoln promised to invade any state that failed to collect "the duties and imposts," and he kept his promise. On April 19, 1861, the reason Lincoln gave for his naval blockade of the Southern ports was that "the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed" in the states that had seceded.
Congress announced to the world on July 22, 1861, that the purpose of the war was not "interfering with the rights or established institutions of those states" (i.e., slavery), but to preserve the Union "with the rights of the several states unimpaired." At the time of Fort Sumter (April 12, 1861) only the seven states of the deep South had seceded. There were more slaves in the Union than out of it, and Lincoln had no plans to free any of them.
The North invaded to regain lost federal tax revenue by keeping the Union intact by force of arms. In his First Inaugural Lincoln promised to invade any state that failed to collect "the duties and imposts," and he kept his promise. On April 19, 1861, the reason Lincoln gave for his naval blockade of the Southern ports was that "the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed" in the states that had seceded.
This statement is literally true: both Lincoln and Kennedy were first elected to Congress one hundred years apart. Aside from that minor coincidence, however, their political careers bore little resemblance to each other.
It's hardly surprising that two men who (as noted above) both achieved their first political successes at the national level a hundred years apart would also ascend to the Presidency a hundred years apart. This "coincidence" is even less surprising when we consider that presidential elections are held only once every four years. Lincoln couldn't possibly have been elected President in 1857 or 1858 or 1859 or 1861 or 1862 or 1863, because no presidential elections were held in those years. Likewise, Kennedy couldn't possibly have been elected President in the non-election years of 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, or 1963. So, even though both men were politically active at the national level during eight-year spans when they might have been elected President, circumstances dictated that the only years during those spans when they both could have been elected were exactly one hundred years apart.
Also unmentioned here is the fact that Lincoln was re-elected to a second term as President, but Kennedy was killed before the completion of his first term.
This is one of the statements that is so misleadingly worded (or downright inaccurate) that it doesn't really merit inclusion even on a list of mere superficial similarities.
First of all, saying that Lincoln and Kennedy were both "particularly concerned with civil rights" is like saying that Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt were both "particularly concerned with war," or that Herbert Hoover and Ronald Reagan were both "particularly concerned with economics." Neither Lincoln nor Kennedy evinced a "particular interest" in civil rights, and to all appearances, both would willingly have maintained the racial status quo had events beyond their control not forced their hands.
Another non-surprise. The best chance the average person has to shoot a President is at a public function, and most public functions are held on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. (An earlier plot by Booth to kidnap Lincoln was slated for March 17, also a Friday.)
Both Kennedy and Lincoln had several secretaries. In fact, Lincoln's private secretary was names were John Nicolay and John Hay, but few espose the idea that there's any kind of connection to Lincoln and persons who's first names are "John" and last names end in "ay"
A dubious use of the term "Southerner." Although John Wilkes Booth was undeniably a Southern sympathizer, he was born in Maryland, which (along with Delaware) was the northernmost of the border slave states and remained part of the Union throughout the Civil War.
Oswald was nominally a Southerner by virtue of his having been born in New Orleans, but he spent much of life jumping between Lousiana, Texas, and New York.
Another hundred-year coincidence that is hardly surprising, since nearly all American politicians have attained high office (President or Vice-President) while in the 50-70 age range (and Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson were, obviously, contemporaries of Lincoln and Kennedy, respectively).
Wrong: Booth was born in 1838, not 1839.
Also wrong. John Wilkes Booth was often billed as "J. Wilkes Booth" or simply "John Wilkes" when he was an actor. Lee Oswald was generally referred to as "Lee" by his friends and family.
Lincoln was luxury the car of choice, and it was, at least lartly, named for the former POTUS. Most presidents have had Lincolns as their cars of choice. It's no more a coincidence than the fact that we had a Presient names "Ford".
Another "coincidence" that is both inaccurate and superficial.
Booth shot Lincoln in a playhouse type of theater, and was apprehended several days later in a tobacco shed.
Oswald shot Kennedy from (not in) a textbook warehouse, then remained in Dallas and was caught and taken alive in a movie theater a little over an hour later.
Another superficial similarity, and a potentially dubious use of the word "assassinated."
After Booth shot Lincoln, he fled the scene with co-conspirator, David Herold. Up[on being discovered several days later at a farmhouse shed, the two men were ordered to surrender: Herold complied, but when Booth failed to drop his weapon and come out, the shed was set ablaze to smoke Booth out. A trooper named Boston Corbett shot Booth, believing he had a weapon.
Wrong. Marilyn Monroe died well over a year before Kennedy's assassination.
This statement is literally true: both Lincoln and Kennedy were first elected to Congress one hundred years apart. Aside from that minor coincidence, however, their political careers bore little resemblance to each other.
It's hardly surprising that two men who (as noted above) both achieved their first political successes at the national level a hundred years apart would also ascend to the Presidency a hundred years apart. This "coincidence" is even less surprising when we consider that presidential elections are held only once every four years. Lincoln couldn't possibly have been elected President in 1857 or 1858 or 1859 or 1861 or 1862 or 1863, because no presidential elections were held in those years. Likewise, Kennedy couldn't possibly have been elected President in the non-election years of 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, or 1963. So, even though both men were politically active at the national level during eight-year spans when they might have been elected President, circumstances dictated that the only years during those spans when they both could have been elected were exactly one hundred years apart.
Also unmentioned here is the fact that Lincoln was re-elected to a second term as President, but Kennedy was killed before the completion of his first term.
This is one of the statements that is so misleadingly worded (or downright inaccurate) that it doesn't really merit inclusion even on a list of mere superficial similarities.
First of all, saying that Lincoln and Kennedy were both "particularly concerned with civil rights" is like saying that Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt were both "particularly concerned with war," or that Herbert Hoover and Ronald Reagan were both "particularly concerned with economics." Neither Lincoln nor Kennedy evinced a "particular interest" in civil rights, and to all appearances, both would willingly have maintained the racial status quo had events beyond their control not forced their hands.
Another non-surprise. The best chance the average person has to shoot a President is at a public function, and most public functions are held on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. (An earlier plot by Booth to kidnap Lincoln was slated for March 17, also a Friday.)
Both Kennedy and Lincoln had several secretaries. In fact, Lincoln's private secretary was names were John Nicolay and John Hay, but few espose the idea that there's any kind of connection to Lincoln and persons who's first names are "John" and last names end in "ay"
A dubious use of the term "Southerner." Although John Wilkes Booth was undeniably a Southern sympathizer, he was born in Maryland, which (along with Delaware) was the northernmost of the border slave states and remained part of the Union throughout the Civil War.
Oswald was nominally a Southerner by virtue of his having been born in New Orleans, but he spent much of life jumping between Lousiana, Texas, and New York.
Another hundred-year coincidence that is hardly surprising, since nearly all American politicians have attained high office (President or Vice-President) while in the 50-70 age range (and Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson were, obviously, contemporaries of Lincoln and Kennedy, respectively).
Wrong: Booth was born in 1838, not 1839.
Also wrong. John Wilkes Booth was often billed as "J. Wilkes Booth" or simply "John Wilkes" when he was an actor. Lee Oswald was generally referred to as "Lee" by his friends and family.
Lincoln was luxury the car of choice, and it was, at least lartly, named for the former POTUS. Most presidents have had Lincolns as their cars of choice. It's no more a coincidence than the fact that we had a Presient names "Ford".
Another "coincidence" that is both inaccurate and superficial.
Booth shot Lincoln in a playhouse type of theater, and was apprehended several days later in a tobacco shed.
Oswald shot Kennedy from (not in) a textbook warehouse, then remained in Dallas and was caught and taken alive in a movie theater a little over an hour later.
Another superficial similarity, and a potentially dubious use of the word "assassinated."
After Booth shot Lincoln, he fled the scene with co-conspirator, David Herold. Up[on being discovered several days later at a farmhouse shed, the two men were ordered to surrender: Herold complied, but when Booth failed to drop his weapon and come out, the shed was set ablaze to smoke Booth out. A trooper named Boston Corbett shot Booth, believing he had a weapon.
Wrong. Marilyn Monroe died well over a year before Kennedy's assassination. </font>[/QUOTE]Johnv,
I see you got the same info i did from www.snopes.com.
The bulk if it, yes. Alas, I neglected to link to them. My bad.
It is interesting, though, to see how much an urban legend will grow when left to its own devices, even when some of the info is so obviously wrong (such as the blurb on Marilyn Monroe).
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
The site of that tobacco shed is right here in the Commonwealth. I found it on a business trip to Baltimore, MD. I almost wrecked my rental car stopping to see it.
If you are on US 301, headed toward the Potomac River Bridge, there is a marker that reads "John Wilkes Booth." I am not sure if it is accurate, but the site is supposedly between the highway (301 is divided at this point).
If any of you are ever in DC, I recommend going to Ford's Theatre. It is right behind the Hard Rock Cafe - you can't miss it (take the red line if you are riding the Metro). The house where Lincoln died is right across the street.
If you couldn't tell, I really love living in the Commonwealth!!
Regards,
BiR