Carnal Christians

I agree with gekko, if salvation was simply saying a prayer, or just 'believing' in Jesus' death on the cross, even if I had no intention of cleaning up my life I would say it simply for 'fire insurance'.

 

But that's exactly what Acts 16:30-31 says. What must I do to be saved? Believe. That's all they said. So did they lie to the jailor? Did they leave five of the six steps out?

Righteous living ONLY comes into view AFTER salvation, becuase that is the only time a person can actually live righteously. Until that moment of salvation they are dead in trespasses and sin.

However most people forget that we are born babes in Christ. And just as you had to be taught right growing up so a baby Christian has to be taught what is expected of them.

It's not an automatic thing.

 

Sadly, that's the way that many view it on both sides of the OSAS issue.

Those who think that you can lose your salvation say, "It obviouisly can't be true." Many of those who hold to the simplicity of the OSAS doctrine, use it as a license to sin.

Although OSAS is born out through the simplest reading of Scriptures, that's just the beginning of our lives as Christians. Just like a little baby, we're not born and that's the end of it. We are expected to grow on to maturity from there.

That's what "enduring", "bearing fruit", etc. are about.

They are things that we are supposed to do after we're saved. They are not things that earn salvation, keep salvation, nor prove our salvation.

Although spiritual salvation can be viewed as fire insurance, there are dire warnings given for the shortcomings in our behavior. But, loss of salvation is not one of those warnings.

 

This is a plagiary of some of the comments on this thread:smilewinkgrin: This is how I understand Carnal Christians. Do I have it?

Basically we are all Carnal Chrisitans at times and it is something we must fight against with Gods help.

Carnal Christians:
1. Relating to the physical and especially sexual appetites: carnal desire.
2. Worldly or earthly; temporal: the carnal world.
3. Of or relating to the body or flesh; bodily: carnal remains.


1. They are carnal/of the flesh=lacking Holy Spirit
or
2. They are "babes in Christ"=immature Christians

War is EXACTLY what this is. We are in a spiritual warfare with a spiritual foe that does not want us to succeed

People don't automatically become faithful, obedient, overcoming Christians at the very moment of salvation. It's a growth process.

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I'm one every time I yield to fleshly desires or impulses. 1 John 1:9 restores my fellowship with God.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A person must be truly believing and repenting

There are faithful Christians and there are unfaithful Christian. There are prepared Christians and there are unprepared Christians. There are righteous Christians and Christians that are wicked. There are overcoming Christians and there are Christians that are overcome.

Because instead of being interested in growing in the Word and growing in the Spirit they were more interested in their fleshly desires.

As Christians, we will continue to sin but we will not live lives with sin as our master.

They will overcome with the power of the Holy Spirit behind them.

Those who think that they can call themselves Christians and not follow Christ by living a life pleasing to Him are SADLY mistaken. They will be even sadder at the Judgment.

 

It seems that Paul is saying in Rom 8 that those who walk according to the flesh are not believers. Sinning and walking according to the flesh are not the same thing, imo.

All Christians sin and struggle with sin, and Christians can even fall into a sin for awhile but they will be convicted and repent. But the phrase "carnal christian" implies that someone is living that way day to day, with no conviction or concern, and they just continue on this way. In that case, I would say the person does not appear to be a Christian.

BTW, I did not read any other posts here as I did not want to be influenced by others' views on this topic.

 

If you did not want to be influenced then why did you open up the thread.

I am not here to be influenced but the learn and grow

Then you have no wordly desires that you feel the need to fight off?

 

My belief is that a Christian has Christ as the Master of their life (hence the name Christian). A non-Christian has sin or Satan as their master. As Jesus said, "No one can serve two masters."

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

If you serve the world, according to Christ you will hate him. Someone who hates Christ is NOT a Christian.

 

Again you make personal statements, but provide no Scriptural backing. Romans says we don't have to allow sin to rule over us, but it can. Paul exhorts us to walk in the Spirit, but that doesn't mean we will.

Ephesians 2:10 says we should do the good works, which means we may or may not.

There are just way too many verses of Scripture that speak directly against your belief.

 

That's one of the most absurd things I have read on this board in a while, and it obviously shows that you have been paying very little attention to what I have said.

I have said EXACTLY the opposite of that. I am one of the ones that has been saying there are consequences for living a life of sin. Everyone else, now I guess including yourself, are saying that it doesn't matter how you live your life you still get your little piece of heaven.

It doesn't work like that. You want to live a life of sin you will pay the consequences for it here and now and in the age to come.

I really can't believe of all the posts that I've put on here you would say that I believe in a laid back Christianity. That's just nonsense.

 

Gekko,
Do you think that Scripture can contradict itself?

If not, you have just presented a contradiction. It contradicts most notable Acts 16:30-31, which is the only place in the Bible that both asks and answers the question, "What must I do to be saved?" The answer is consistent in every major text, and as far as I know, every manuscript, including the TR (except the TR does add the word "Christ").

What's the answer?

"Believe [aorist; punctiliar] on the Lord Jesus and you will [indicative; no doubt about it] be saved."

There is nothing about works.

Works come after salvation, and if salvation can be forfeited, then God is a liar in the preceding verse.

Are there consequences for those living a life of sin? You betchya! They are dire consequences. But, those consequences do not include loss of spiritual salvation.

 

As Jesus said, "No one can serve two masters."

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Do you read other people's posts?

 

Quote:
They are dire consequences. But, those consequences do not include loss of spiritual salvation.

ok then HoG - maybe you can expand on this.

What ARE the consequences?

you say what they are not.

but what ARE they?
----------------------------------------------

Here a a couple

1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

You've just contradicted Scriptures with your statement. If you believe (punctiliar, not continuous action), you will (not may) be saved.

You cannot become unsaved, unless this verse is lying.

The consequences are expounded upon throughout Scripture, but most people apply the warnings to the unsaved or to a loss of salvation, which is not Scriptural.

We are warned about what will happen at the Judgment Seat of Christ, there will be loss, there will be outer darkness, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, there will be disciplinary punishment...