Carnality

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Romans 7:17-25 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It's not an excuse, it's a condition. We no longer want to sin, we no longer agree with it, but sometimes we fail. We should not beat ourselves up over it, we should get back up and get back on track.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

 

1Cr 10:8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Rom 8:14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2Pe 2:9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Rom 8:1¶[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If I found myself in adultery, I would withdraw myself from the church and pray for the rest of my life for forgiveness. If I ever felt that God had forgiven me, then I would come back by the door.

If that is arrogance or harsh to some, then so be it. It is what I believe about God's church and its members. There is a warfare between the spirit and the flesh and I think the spirit is the one who wins out by the Grace of God. I do not believe that salvation is a license to sin. Before salvation, all believe that it was "against" you, but apparently after salvation, you get a free pass.

Jesus said "Go and sin no more". He didn't say "you just slipped up"!

 

I don't understand this remark at all. You say "a Christian" and then "okay with their salvation". What does that mean? That they are in danger of losing their salvation?

I have known people who claim to be Christians but are licentious. I hesitate calling them Christian because, as much as I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, I do doubt their salvation. I don't doubt the salvation of the OP because he knows it's wrong and doesn't try to justify it. Licentious people tend to try to justify their behavior or dismiss the sinfulness of it.

 

You said it much better than I except for the OP. If someone is committing adultery several times a year then I will say what Jesus said, "go and sin no more". I would rather someone be mad at me for being harsh than to pat them on the back and fail to tell them the truth, that adultery will send you to hell. I don't know the OP and his salvation is between him and God. I do know that if you defile the body that God will destroy you.​

If you tell someone the truth, they may make an effort to make it right and quit such actions. If you tell them it will not affect their salvation, then I think you are doing them a "wrong". Scripture says to "declare the whole council of God".​

I wonder what Jesus would say to the OP?
Would He say you slipped?
Or would He say, you have sinned and if they asked for forgiveness, He probably would forgive, but on the condition that they "go and sin no more".​

We as Pastors, preachers, teachers of God's word are not to try and sweet coat it, but be truthful so the man or woman might repent and go to Heaven. If we tell them it is "ok", we may be the cause of them settling down short of salvation. ​

This is just what I believe, I don't deserve smart remarks such as Tator tot made, but that is up to her if she wants to be rude, so be it. I will tell men the truth, so they can make a good decision. If they don't want to hear what I have to say, then it could be a witness against them in the day of judgement.

If you know something you are doing is wrong, then you don't have an excuse at all! Harsh words, but truth.​

 

You are not upholding God's word, but rather your own arrogant standard.

You have done nothing but quote Scriptures completely out of context that do not support your claims at all!

This is awful theology and NO where in Scripture!

Those who are in Christ are forgiven eternally.

You have nothing more than a system of man that leads to fear and bondage.

 

The idea of this board is to discuss scripture and not to throw remarks at another poster. Why don't you show some maturity and try and answer the scriptures below, instead of showing childness. What kind of a Pastor would uphold a member committing fornication 3 times every year?

1Cr 10:8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Eph 5:3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

1Th 4:6That no [man] go beyond and defraud his brother in [any] matter: because that the Lord [is] the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Jos 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


Jam 3:6And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Rev 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


1Cr 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

BBob,

 

Great. When are you going to do this instead of just copying and pasting Scriptures taken out of context?

 

Answer the posts, its all scripture. I wish I could say the same for yours.

 

This is very strong language, but it's Biblical, so it is impossible to argue with it:

He's clearly referring to saved people, since they have the Spirit of God in them. In fact, that's the whole problem.

But I question what it means when it says "God will destroy him". I don't think that means "God will take away his salvation". I think it means something more like "God will make him sick or kill his body rather than let His name be profaned by his behavior". That's what happened to the Corinthians who were profaning the Lord's Supper by their behavior. Some fell asleep, and others were sick.

I don't think it's Biblical, however, to say that if you commited adultery you must pray for forgiveness for the rest of your life.

My point earlier was that guaranteed forgiveness is not a license to sin, so one must consider that, too.

 

I did answer. You have posted nothing but out of context Scriptures. You have done nothing to argue your case.

As has been pointed out, arrogance is not becoming.

It is definitely sad to see people caught up in arguing their own standards rather than the standards of God's Word.

Hebrews 10:10, 14 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all....because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."

 

It was just a statement of how strong I feel about the matter and if I were guilty of it.

My point is people give members advice and praise them for coming forth when the member themselves think they have done a terrible wrong. There is a scripture where the "blind lead the blind", and I think it may apply to some.

 

You have answered nothing but run on and on. There are those among us who are not saved. I would think someone committing fornication year after year should be a concern for a pastor, rather than helping them on the road to destruction. The greatest threat to a sinner is for someone to encourage him in his sin, and that is just what you are doing.

Hbr 6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

 

I don't think this is referring to saved people, which means it is not about losing your salvation. Why? Because after all these warnings, the author says:

Here he draws the distinction between two opposed sets of characteristics of people. There are the characteristics of those in Heb 6:6, and there are the characteristics that accompany salvation.

It is also possible that Heb 6:6 is a hypothetical, and doesn't really refer to anyone. He's just making a point. Regardless, "things that accompany salvation" would still be in contrast to the hypothetical.

 

4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I think it does mean the saved but just telling us how impossible it is to fall.

 

I only pointed out the arrogance that has been dripping from your (and others) posts today. It saddens me. You know that I am not rude, I just think I hit a nerve. You have all the right in the world just as I do to formulate your own opinions based on your interpretations of Scripture. So what if you preach harsh words to folks? If you alienate lost folks, then what have you gained?

I am not going to argue with you tonight. Maybe you really dont struggle with any carnalty in your life, but many of us do in one form or other. Instead of going on a self righteous rampage, a little compassion might go a longer way if you really want to get people to listen to your point of view.

Tater

 

I know about that, Bob. I still don't see how it makes any sense unless it is a hypothetical or it's referring to unsaved people. You can't contrast saved people against "things that accompany salvation", which the author clearly does.

The parts you put in bold are truly problematic unless it is hypothetical. I don't have an answer for them. I could guess, but I don't think it's wise.

 

Not committing fornication 3 times a year after year. You are wrong not telling such a person they need to repent and sin no more. That is what the Lord said anyway.

 

I think we are on the same track nept; that it is telling us how impossible it is for the saved to return to the world.

The scripture talks about the dog returning to its vomit. I don't believe we are the dogs though, do you?
This is leaving the subject somewhat.

 

You call it arrogance and I call it not encouraging someone in their sin. You and others scare me upholding people in their sins, and terrible sins at that.

 

I didnt ever tell him that sin was ok. No sin is ok. I do feel compassion for him tho. When a brother hurts, I hurt too. I am not going to beat him up. He knows its wrong, thats why he started the thread.