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Cast your sins into the sea of Forgetfulness?

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by James_Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Christians sin!

Christians will be judged.

1 Peter 4
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? </font>[/QUOTE]This is true. You have stated the matter well.

And as 1Cor 6 those who engage in those sins DO NOT inherit eternal life!

1Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Paul is writing "TO" Christians with this warning about failure to inherit eternal life and about the error of "Being deceived" on this point.


Rom 11
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Christ makes the point in Matt 18 that it is those who HAVE Gospel forgivenss that are epxected to 'forgive others AS they have been forgiven' in the Gospel. And then if they refuse - Christ points out the end is "forgiveness revoked"!!

There is only one debt for sin - eternal death - the Lake of Fire - the wages of sin.

So Paul says to Christians "be not deceived".

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Pastor_Bob:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
This verse carries with it the idea of receiving rewards.</font>[/QUOTE]#1. Rewards are not mentioned.

#2. What is the "reward for bad deeds" according to Romans 6? Romans 2? Matt 7? Matt 25?

Interestingly they all point to the same results for "judgment regarding bad deeds".

Nowhere in your response did you show that the "Reward for bad deeds is eternal life".

In 1Cor 6 Paul LISTS those 'bad deeds' and then explicitly states that those who engage in them do NOT receive eternal life.

And most interestingly he prefaces that with "be not deceived" as IF we might be led to think that doing those bad deeds would STILL have us going to receive "eternal life"

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Many Christians will suffer the loss of the rewards that they could have had earned if they would have used the right building materials.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
There is no mention at all in 1Cor 3 about "rewards for bad deeds".

Context shows that the "Work" in 1Cor 3 is the builders work of teaching doctrine and building on the foundation of Christ. It is NOT about "murdering as a Christian and going to heaevn anyway but with less reward". In fact 3 chapters later in 1Cor 6 Paul says that we should "not be deceived" those who do those bad deeds don't even get "eternal life"!

In Christ,

Bob
 

Pastor_Bob

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by BobRyan:
There is no mention at all in 1Cor 3 about "rewards for bad deeds".
[/QB]
The "reward" for bad deeds is very clearly the loss of reward. (vs. 15) The "bad deeds" are the wood, hay, and stubble. They will be consumed by the fire of judgment.

Our rewards are then based upon those works that "abide." (vs. 14) The gold, silver, and precious stones. It is these good works that will result in our rewards on that day.

The Bible is very clear that Christians will not be judged according to their sin after they get to heaven. Every passage regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ deals with the extent of our reward, not the extent of any punishment.
 
Pastor Bob is right, what the christian will be judged for will determine extent of rewards.

There are five Crowns to be given to the believer. The Preacher is to receive one that maost christians will not receive... The Crown of Glory. 1 Peter 5 tells us for the spiritual leader that does not lead his flock astray, this crown awaite.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by BobRyan:
There is no mention at all in 1Cor 3 about "rewards for bad deeds".
Originally posted by Pastor_Bob:

The "reward" for "bad deeds" is very clearly the loss of reward. (vs. 15) The "bad deeds" are the wood, hay, and stubble. They will be consumed by the fire of judgment.
That is a pretty interesting idea - but it is not in 1Cor 3. In chapter 3 the subject is "doctrine" not bad deeds.

In 1 Cor 6 the subject is "bad deeds" not doctrine.

Trying to mix them up does not make a good doctrinal statement.

So lets look at 1Cor3 - the chapter that is on doctrine of evangelists, not "bad deeds".

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Paul contrasts the doctrine and message of different evangelists.

1 Cor 3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
Notice that so far – Paul is not claiming that “he did anything bad” – he is specifically talking about “his teaching”. The argument so far is that he did not provide complex teaching because the people were baby Christians not ready for more complex stuff.

This is apparently to set the context for the work of Apollos who more complex doctrinal teaching after Paul left.

1Cor 3
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.[/b]
So far we have the teaching of Paul and of Apollos – and “neither of them” has done anything wrong. Rather the listeners – have divided their loyalty between Paul and Apollos “as if” one is opposing the other – but in fact they are both building up the church. Their “Work” is good – their “work” is their teaching – their doctrine.

1Cor 3
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
The “reward” is specific to the one who ‘labors’ and in this case the ones “laboring” are Paul and Apollos. The rewards are specific to the evangelist that is “Doing the work”. And their work is supposed to “build up” the church – one building on the work of another. Paul says “I planted, Apollos watered”

Here we see the “good work” (good teaching) of two laborers (two evangelists) and the result is the building up of the church of God – with gospel “rewards” coming to the evangelists..

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

1 Cor 3
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
Not this is “very specific”. The evangelists are said to be co-workers with God Himself in “building up the church of God”. Paul argues that these evangelists are to be “careful how they build” – Careful about the doctrine – the teaching that they provide. Careful that their Gospel teaching is Christ-centered.

1Cor 3
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work
will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
Clearly the point is made that the “quality teaching” is that which is built upon the ONE foundation – the only true foundation (bedrock – Petra) of the church Jesus Christ.

It is the error – that God purges away. Error in doctrine, in Gospel teaching that will not stand. The subject is the same – the context is the same – the issue is the same. The quality of the doctrine/teaching of the various evangelists that are building the church of God as “co-workers” with God.

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

The good news is that Paul predicts that those evangelists who DO bring error into the church will eventually have that error burned away. The faithful people of God will follow the Holy Spirit (ultimately) instead of the errors of man – no matter how “good intentioned” those errors are -

1 Cor 3
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
So in the case of the sincere evangelist who happens to introduce some error – the promise is that it will be tested over time – it will be burned away and the pure church will remain. The “builder” (evangelist – co-worker with God) will still be saved IF their error is not malicious or deliberate – but the error must be removed just the same.

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

There is no mention here of death-then-burning (as if purgatory could be inserted here). There is no mention here of the Evangelists becoming murderers but “being saved anyway”.

All the little twists and turns (spin doctoring) that various traditions would try to insert in the chapter – just aren’t here.

1Cor 6 addresses the problem of ‘bad deeds” in the church and it says “be not deceived” …

1Cor 3 deals with the problem of the purity of doctrine that will come into the church as various “co-workers with God” seek to build up the church. There is no good way to confuse the two chapters – or mix up their content.
 

Naomifariaryan

New Member
BTW I told my mother to not ever do that again if she has a problem with what I preach bring it to me in private. I ask her if she would have done that to another preach at another church she said no I said then dont do it here.


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.
But you did forgive her, right? Just joking. Seriously, that phrase is not written in the Bible in that way. The Bible says that God throws our forgiven sins into the deepest sea. It also says that He doesn't remember them for His sake. Read Isaiah chapter 1:19 and chapter 44:25. The phrase Sea if Forgetfulness was first used in the 1500's by a poor. Google keywords Sea of Forgetfulness, 1500's, and pope. I think that the pope just used those words, "Sea of Forgetfulness", sort of paraphrasing what the Bible actually says about God casting our sins into the deepest sea, and how He will no longer remember our (forgiven) sins. as we might do with words today to explain something we've read and are writing an essay. The Sea of Forgetfulness is a conclusion that the reader, in this case the Pope, draws from the information he h
BTW I told my mother to not ever do that again if she has a problem with what I preach bring it to me in private. I ask her if she would have done that to another preach at another church she said no I said then dont do it here.


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I couldn't tell you where to find the phrase in the Bible. It looks like others have tried. However, it reminded me of a Helen Baylor tune, which is a sweet melody.
 

AnitaM

New Member
I was preaching at Wednesday nights service, we just have a little house church, and I made a comment as to Rev. 20:12 and 13

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

To my understanding mankind saved or unsaved will be judged but at the end of the judgment God looks in the Book of Life and if our name is there we go to heaven if not we go to the Lake of Fire.

In my sermon Wednesday night I made the comment that we will be judged for the sins we have commited and that we would be judged according to our works and if we are not in the Book of Life we go to the Lake of Fire.

My mother stopped me and made the comment,
"What does the Bible say about your sin when you ask God to forgive you."

I said "God cast your sins into the sea of forgetfulness never to be brought up against you again."

I dont know how many times I have heard that saying but I cant find it in any version of the Bible.

If anyone has any info please let me know.

Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.

I stumbled onto this forum after searching for information on the same thing. I joined up just so I can share what I have found. I haven't found any bible version yet that mentions "the sea of forgetfulness" as such. I did however find song lyrics that match.
I haven't researched any further as to who write to the song. Here's a YouTube link to one version of the song.


Bless you all.
 
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