Casting Crowns' Concert

I guess my point is, brother, that I don't know if it is positive or not. Impact? Sure. But positive in biblical terms? I don't know. I know of many people who have been "positively impacted" by things that were absolutely sinful. And their definition of "positive impact" is so seriously skewed they can't see it. I am not attributing that to you or Tater. I don't have any idea.

Furthermore, there is a bit of an existential thing going on here where people get to determine on their own what is right and wrong vs. having to actually deal with things scripturally and evaluating all things to see what they really are. And that is concerning, to me anyway.

My point about agreement is not agreement that you have been positively impacted. My point about agreement was that I stated up front that I am not able to judge the positive impact in other people's lives with whom I have no interaction (aside from this board). I don't agree that you have been positively impacted, but, at this point, only because I have no way to judge that.

My point is not to attack you or anyone else, or to make any statement about positive impact. My point is 1) to encourage us to think biblically about "positive impact" and 2) to say specifically that I cannot judge that.

 

I,and others, just told you it was positive impact.

I think I am capable enough to determine whether something is a positive or negative impact on my life.

That is my point.

You can believe that or not it really matters not to me.

 

I don't know enough about you to be convinced either way. And that is not intended to be anything other than a statement of my ignorance about you. I think you are reading way too much into this, brother. I am going out of my way to give you and others the benefit of any doubt.

I don't know how you judge positive impact. I know what I have heard from others and what I have seen in the church at large, and quite frankly, I am very dubious of the positive impact of CCM on the church given the current state of the church. If CCM was such the great thing that many tell us it is, why is the church at large in such an abominable state? I don't see loads of mature believers being produced by CCM. I see believers who are less mature and less discerning than perhaps any generation in modern church history, and perhaps any generation in church history period. And that should be concerning to more than just me.

 

The positive impact I am referring to is specifically in regards to Casting Crowns.

I will be the first to say there is a lot of junk out there under the umbrella of CCM.

 

I think there is a lot more to blame for the current state of the church than Casting Crowns and they are, after all, the topic of this thread so I will l stop there.

 

It would be an extreme misreading of my comments if you think I am blaming the current state of the church on Casting Crowns. Such a reading would be completely out of line.

 

I believe what Pastor Larry is saying is do not tell us listening to CC has positively affected you, tell us what positive affects it has produced in you. Tell us of the sin it has helped you slay; tell us of the low thoughts of yourself it has facilitated; tell us of the strong desires for holiness it has induced; tell us of the practical holiness it has produced; and other such things.


BGTF

 

Why bother? You would discount it, and explain it away if one did.

 

Thank you, Tiny Tim. I am starting to understand CCM a little better, with your help. It always sounded "lite" to me, but I guess what I would call lite might sound joyful to someone else, and I guess what I might call bold would sound severe to someone else. I can understand that much.

love,

sopranette

 

Tim

I did read through that thread, but until page 3 all the talk is about some type of feeling that CC has left people with.

What I am interested in is this, since the proper ordinances of God always come with fresh power from on high in the slaying of sin, has this resurrection power of the Holy Ghost been imparted through the music of CC? Specific examples of this were listed in my previous post.


BGTF

 

author has no clue why he feels compelled to respond...


Let's assume

1) I liked most CCM (I don't)

2) I wanted you to like it (isn't realistic either)

Presumably 1 & 2 would compel me to write something along the lines of:

"God really speaks to me/touches me/blesses me/ (your cliche here) via CCM."

If one isn't going to accept glib (read: common) responses as authoritative, why would one ask for some other more complicated personal responses? I mean, I, the listener, can relatively prove that a certain kind of music motivates me to think of God in a certain way but I can't even relatively prove detailed happenings in the spiritual world even when they do relate to me. Sin must be slain and resurrection power given prior to or after listening to a song? How often? Every song? Between verses?


author awaits ByGracethroughFaith RIGHTFULLY telling him to mind his own business

 

I am not really much of a game player, so if someone wants to do what you are saying, they can go on fooling themselves and in the end will only prove to be fuel for the fire. There is no greater fool than the one who fools himself.

My intent is not to play games, the question was genuine.

Even if no one actually writes an answer, the self-examination exercise is well worth it.

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1029.htm


BGTF

 

I understand your question is sincere. I'm confused how a person could prove the working of the Holy Spirit via music. Ultimately, for a proponent of CCM to convince you of the good CCM does you'd just have to take his word for it and that doesn't seem to be something either side wants to do.

Btw, I know where you're coming from and respect you for your convictions. And I hope my butting in wasn't offensive. The conversation just looked interesting.

 

Friend, not sure if you know by now, but it is impossible to offend me, though some have done their very best to test the outer limits.

The working or lack of working of the Holy Spirit in many conditions (including music) is quite visible to a Christian with even a small amount of discernment. Likewise those who are like Bunyan's Talkative, are also very easily determined.


For all to enjoy:

This is a hymn that that I don't often come away from without an operation of the Holy Spirit at some level. (Mind you, I sing it sometimes over and over for up to an hour).

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/m/o/moreholi.htm


BGTF

 

Pastor Larry,

The problem is that the scriptures do not inform us regarding what style of music is proper and what isnt, what instruments can be used and what cant, what meter can be used what cant, what volume is acceptable and what isnt, etc etc etc.

We have examples given of what the Israelites used, but there is nothing regarding being limited to those.

So, what it boils down to is....

1) The lyrics
2) presentation
3) personal preference

I enjoy Bluegrass, some contemporary Rock styles, Jazz, Country and Celtic. So I of course love the christian versions of those genres.

I cant stand heavy metal, punk, grunge, and disco. And hip hop and rap noise sends me screaming from the room after about 10 seconds of it.

But others are blessed by christian versions of those styles...so I'm not *against* them.

(I just cant be in the room while its going on!) :laugh:

Mike

 

Worship is a private, spiritual act. Yes, it can be done with others and is glorious when it is done so. But the fact remains that it is intensely personal, between you and God.

What does music have to do with it? Sometimes nothing, sometimes everything. I can praise God through my silence, I can praise Him through my prayer, I can praise Him through my words, I can praise Him through my songs, and I can praise Him through the songs of others. The point is the He is the focus of said worship.

The bible does not tell us what is or is not the "right" form of music. Nor does it tell what is the "wrong" kind. Music itself is noise set to a certain pitch and meter, with some forms appealing to some and other forms appealing to others. Style and specific instruments are added in to make it different.

I have not had the chance to go see Casting Crowns yet, but if they come anywhere near I will take my wife to see them. I have watched her weep and worship to their music many, many times. My wife is the godliest woman I have ever known... she leaves pastors' wives in the dust. She is very much traditional in her preferred style of church worship. but she knows that some of the groups and artists today are walking close with God, and their music portrays that fact.

Condemning anyone for a certain style of music is shameful, period. I know better than to point a finger, because there are three more pointed back at me. Music has been used to worship God since man began, and it will continue to do so long after we are gone. the styles have changed drastically since back then, and they will continue to change. Music is fluid, not static.

Praise God and not the vehicle of that worship. Lift your hands and your voices to Him, however you choose to do it. A clean heart will please Him always, and we cannot have one while we are tearing at each other over non-essentials.

 

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy TMI.