Casual approaches to worship

[Alcott]

This started by many churches having as come as you are attitude or in todays terminology a contemporary service. This is so every body can come and no one will feel inferior.

So, your purpose IS to make people feel inferior. Correct?

My point here is that one of our goals in worship should not be our own comfort. That's the promblem with most contemporary worship-most of the focus is on the worshippers and not on Him who is to be worshipped.

One solution that should go a long way would be for you to focus on your own worship, not what other worshippers are wearing. Or do you wear pants 2 inches small, so you're too uncomfortable to focus on your own worhsip?

 

[Ransom]

CarolinaBaptist said:

Personally, I think we should offer our best to the Lord when we gather corporately for worship.

For many men, "our best" would be a tuxedo, yet nearly everyone recognizes that formal wear would be inappropriate attire for church.

Since when did the church get the notion that we should be comfortable when we worship God?

I've heard it said (by Chuck Colson, as I recall) that the church was to make people uncomfortable, but I don't think he meant that our clothes should chafe or be overly restrictive.

Later, you added:

My point here is that one of our goals in worship should not be our own comfort.

Who says that how people dress for church is a "goal in worship"? I'd classify comfort more as a "goal in dressing."

[ January 25, 2006, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Ransom]

Salamander asked:

I do rememebr some one stating they were starting a nude church, any comments?

Just one.

Is there something that indy-fundy pastors put in the water at their churches, to make the sheep automatically counter an argument with the most ridiculous worst-case scenarios possible?

"I don't wear a tie to church."
"Oh, you must think it's OK to go to church nude, too."

or

"I like a glass of wine with dinner."
"Oh, you must think it's OK to go out every night and get wasted, too."

or

"I don't believe that the KJV is the only Bible God approves of."
"Oh, then you must also think that the New World Translation, the Book of Mormon, and the Quran are the Word of God, too."

or

"I went to see a movie last night."
"Oh? Do you think that a strip club is appropriate entertainment for Christians, too?"

I have seen all of the above "arguments" made, in perfect seriousness.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Personally, I think we should offer our best to the Lord when we gather corporately for worship.

For many men, "our best" would be a tuxedo, yet nearly everyone recognizes that formal wear would be inappropriate attire for church.

We should use the early church standard for best attire. Now where did I put my fine linen robe and sheepskin sandals.

 

[mnw]

Yes ransom, they all put chemicles in the grape juice at the Lord's Table to make them react that way.

I would add, it is not just one group who do this. One group says, "Wear your best for church." The other replies, "Oh, so you have to dress smart to get saved..." And it goes on.

As for tuxedo, that is not "Best" for church, it is "Best" for certain occasions. When I take my wife out for dinner I like to look my best, now if my best at the time can only stretch to a McDonalds (hey, times can be hard) then a tux is not appropriate.

Oh man! Someone told me before I came to the Baptist Board that certain discussions are always on the go here, clothing standards and there was another I forget, probably women preachers, anyway.

I promised myself I would not get into the clothing standards issue as it is relatively minor unless you are talking about modesty. But, here I am, in the middle of it.

I have made a mental note not to get caught in it again...

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

My point here is that one of our goals in worship should not be our own comfort. That's the promblem with most contemporary worship-most of the focus is on the worshippers and not on Him who is to be worshipped.

I put to you that this is not just a problem in contemporary worship (unless of course you're referring to contemporary in time, not style). Most American traditional / blended / contemporary / modern (I hate these labels by the way) worship services that I have observed in many churches in many parts of the US are about the comfort of their people. Is this wrong? Not necessarily. Should we have to be uncomfortable? Not necessarily either.

It has been discussed that casual appearance does not equate casual attitude. As there is no convincing of some on this issue, I'll agree to disagree.

As far as other casual approaches, what about the seating? In my mind, worship should be done standing up or bowing, never seated. In my (and most Baptist) churches, it has proven to be tradition to sit for most of the service. Talk about casual! "Well, some of the older people need to sit because of their health." OK. The fact is, we're lazy in the presence of a mighty God.

Let's see: other casual approaches... what about the singing of songs? Now, without turning this into a bash of contemporary music, I'll tell you that there are certain modern songs AND traditional songs and hymns that I will not put into a worship service because they are inappropriate. They might be the most popular song right now, but if they cease to be about the worship of an Almighty God, they're out. We have become so anti-intellectual that we have stopped singing some of the finest theology-filled songs and hymns of yesteryear, because "we don't use words like 'bulwark' or 'assauged' anymore." We overlook great new songs with great and honoring lyrics, because we have become so narcissistic that worship is about us, not about God. Count the number of "I's" in a song you like. There's a good chance that if there's more "I" in a song than "God, Christ or Spirit" that it's more man-centered than God or Gospel-centered.

We are so worried about the dress of a person in this argument, we have overlooked far more pressing matters in church worship. Anyone up for discussing these casual approaches to worship?

 

[mnw]

Good post and worth discussing.

 

[Ron Arndt]

I feel the New Testament NEVER commanded wearing business suits and ladies fancy dresses to church period. Most of the New testament Christians assembled in the clothes they had. Today, we should come dressed in decent clothing, but it sure doesn't need to be fancy.

It's very hard to get a FAMILY all suited up in fancy clothes for church, let alone get them "up" for church to begin with. Sure, pajamas are stretching things to far, but nice casual clothes certainly are not.

I always hated wearing a white shirt and a tie to church many years ago. Now only casual wear is required and I feel much more comfortable, without a tie choking me around my neck.

My vote is for casual wear for folks to attend church in.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Shiloh:
Judge Alito before the Senate Panel in jeans and t-shirt. What would be wrong with that?

You're talking about a worldly custom. Unless you're saying we should derive our scriptural doctrine from worldly customs, your contention doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[CarolinaBaptist]

Alcott,

I can assure you that I focus on my own worship, whether corporate or personal. My post was inspired by different church ads I have seen emphasizing casual dress for church services and I believe that reflects those churches' attitudes about worship. What is sad to me is that when someone says that we should have certain standards for dress, church music, etc., the usual responses are emotional and "me-centered."

 

[Shiloh]

Johnv,

You are a master twister.

Edited by blackbird

[ January 25, 2006, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Johnv]

Wow, Shiloh, with comments like that, it's no wonder you're complaining about the abundance of posts that demonstrate a lack of Christlike bahavior. You're looking at your own posts.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Salamander asked:

I do rememebr some one stating they were starting a nude church, any comments?

Just one.

Is there something that indy-fundy pastors put in the water at their churches, to make the sheep automatically counter an argument with the most ridiculous worst-case scenarios possible?

"I don't wear a tie to church."
"Oh, you must think it's OK to go to church nude, too."

or

"I like a glass of wine with dinner."
"Oh, you must think it's OK to go out every night and get wasted, too."

or

"I don't believe that the KJV is the only Bible God approves of."
"Oh, then you must also think that the New World Translation, the Book of Mormon, and the Quran are the Word of God, too."

or

"I went to see a movie last night."
"Oh? Do you think that a strip club is appropriate entertainment for Christians, too?"

I have seen all of the above "arguments" made, in perfect seriousness.

Well I suppose you might define nudity, but I won't hold my breath.

Is nudity definable holisticly? Or aren't there levels of nudity, since some of us are discussing contemporary worship while others are lying in wait to make stupid accusations?

 

[Ransom]

Well I suppose you might define nudity, but I won't hold my breath.

Good thing, too, because you would turn blue before I started defending an argument someone invented for me.

 

[saturneptune]

Common sense goes a long way. Sure seems to me lots of folks are concerned about an outer garb instead of the heart. Seems to me Jesus dealt with that in the Bible. Wasn't His take not to worry about what you eat, drink, or wear. Also, as I recall, it seems He said talking about the scribe, they wear their long flowing robes and take their places of honor at the dinner table, and want to be noticed......

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Well I suppose you might define nudity, but I won't hold my breath.

Good thing, too, because you would turn blue before I started defending an argument someone invented for me.

What a laugh, so you can't deal with the subject, huh?

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
Common sense goes a long way. Sure seems to me lots of folks are concerned about an outer garb instead of the heart. Seems to me Jesus dealt with that in the Bible. Wasn't His take not to worry about what you eat, drink, or wear. Also, as I recall, it seems He said talking about the scribe, they wear their long flowing robes and take their places of honor at the dinner table, and want to be noticed......

Not exactly, Jesus showed us all that if the heart is right, the outside will be right.

What we see this day in the form of modernism, is the vessel may be white on the inside, but the outside if covered with dead men's bones.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Not exactly, Jesus showed us all that if the heart is right, the outside will be right.

What we see this day in the form of modernism, is the vessel may be white on the inside, but the outside if covered with dead men's bones.

The big problem is that you seem to have equated a suit and tie with the outside being right. Jesus also taught that when the heart is wrong we will be overly concerned with what others think about our outsides.

 

[HeDied4U]

I know I'm jumping in on this conversation rather late, but I just have one little comment to add to all that's already been said...

If those who 'champion' wearing a suit and tie (or a dress on a lady) feel the way they do, why not go one step further and say men need to wear a tuxedo and women an evening dress. Wouldn't we really be showing respect for God that way? I mean, if a tuxedo is good enough for a wedding, shouldn't it be good enough for God?

(yes, the sarcasm is intended, but I hope you get my point, i.e., why stop at a suit and tie?)

 

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by CarolinaBaptist:
Why is that in many contemporary churches "dressing down" for worship is emphasized? Are there any opinions out there on this subject?

IMHO, getting wrapped up in what we're wearing at church will only distract us from why we're there. Now, don't get me wrong: I don't want to see people wearing swim trunks and bikinis, but I don't have an issue with what people wear in our church. My observation is this: The older crowd seems to adhere to more former attire, whereas the younger group tends to lean to a more casual style. Either way, the focus needs to be on worshipping God!