I've known no shortage of lost folks who won't attend church because, in their mind, the attire is too "stuffy". In that light, the answer to the question "what would a lost person think" in an attempt to favor formal over casual attire serves to refute the formal-attire-only argument.
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Casual approaches to worship
- Thread starter CarolinaBaptist
- Start date
Salamander
New Member
Originally posted by Filmproducer:Hmmm... How many LOST have you brought to church lately? I have brought a few, but then it was God that actually brought them to the place that they needed to come In my experience the LOST could CARE LESS what Christians wear to church, or anywhere else for that matter I'm so glad you can speak for the lost so accuratelyThe only thing that I have found to drive people away from worship is possible judgemnet by Christians. Once again, wear what you want, and permit others to do the same. Neither side has a leg to stand on scriptually, and frankly I don't think God cares as long as the heart is right. If that is fitting God into a box, so be it. Obviously you missed what God says concerning that man looks on the outward appearance
Oh, can you please let me know where you buy your clothes? Value City, walmart, and the thrift store I should probably start shopping there so that the LOST do not think I am buying "worldly" clothes. My testimony and character must be confusing people because they see me wearing "worldly" clothes bought in the average "worldly" store. Casual/ Worldly
Modest/godly
Do we have a responsibility to not cause brothers to sin because of our dress (e.g., lust)? Yes.
Do we have a responsibility refrain from adding to what Jesus asked of those who would follow Him? Yes.
I'm proud of the double standard I have in my church. I've had teens who were lost attend our church for the first time, wearing shirts with profanity. THEY WERE WELCOME. (BTW, one was saved two weeks ago, in his profane shirt. It found the trash that week--HIS choice!)
I've had some of my core group come to church wearing clothes that were too short or tight. We didn't want them to cause others to stumble. THEY WERE ASKED TO CHANGE.
Our philosophy: Come as you are. If you're a believer, don't cause others to fall into sin (and when others are pharasaical, they are not being caused to sin...they are entering into it willingly). And since we're taught to submit to one another, don't be a gluteus maximus about it...on either side of the coin. If you're not a believer, just come. Jesus will speak, and you will hear.
Anything beyond this to me is irrelevant.
Except for shoelaces, of course.
I was going to get some "WWJD" shoelaces, then I realized what Jesus would do, so I bought some sandals.
Do we have a responsibility refrain from adding to what Jesus asked of those who would follow Him? Yes.
I'm proud of the double standard I have in my church. I've had teens who were lost attend our church for the first time, wearing shirts with profanity. THEY WERE WELCOME. (BTW, one was saved two weeks ago, in his profane shirt. It found the trash that week--HIS choice!)
I've had some of my core group come to church wearing clothes that were too short or tight. We didn't want them to cause others to stumble. THEY WERE ASKED TO CHANGE.
Our philosophy: Come as you are. If you're a believer, don't cause others to fall into sin (and when others are pharasaical, they are not being caused to sin...they are entering into it willingly). And since we're taught to submit to one another, don't be a gluteus maximus about it...on either side of the coin. If you're not a believer, just come. Jesus will speak, and you will hear.
Anything beyond this to me is irrelevant.
Except for shoelaces, of course.
I was going to get some "WWJD" shoelaces, then I realized what Jesus would do, so I bought some sandals.
F
Filmproducer
Guest
AMEN rbell!!!!
I was going to get some "WWJD" shoelaces, then I realized what Jesus would do, so I bought some sandals.
touche, I guess we should all follow your example.
I was going to get some "WWJD" shoelaces, then I realized what Jesus would do, so I bought some sandals.
Salamander
New Member
Who's guidelines are you using to be "set apart"? If it's a coat and tie...it's the WORLDS! Society sets "how" one is to dress in their "best". Following these same guidelines and applying them to the church is not "setting apart" the dress in church, and dress in the "world". </font>[/QUOTE]You should step back a few years, then you wouldn't make so outlandish a statement.
Society says that one should have multiple sex partners this day in time. Church society says you should dress anyway you please, as long as you're comfortable.
If I decide to give my best to the Lord because he certainly gave His BEST for me, then that is my desire to do so. If you want to give your desire to be casual to the Lord when He gave you His BEST, then that is your business, but i actually belive you shouldn't be so lax in your stewardship and learn to dress better.
Salamander
New Member
What a pharisaical statement, we let them in all the time!
They come in with their rap star medallions, "Babydoll" apparel,etc,etc, and we PREACH the devil out of them IN LOVE!!!
Why they even cuss us out at times and we love them and welcome them back! Why we even bus them in so we can PREACH THE DEVIL Out of them!!!
We've got a dress code for our members, not any and everybody else!!!
Salamander
New Member
rbell, you'tre my type of people!
F
Filmproducer
Guest
Salamander,
For the record, I clarified my position, by using the words, "in my experience". In other words, stating what I have been told by nonbelievers when we have discussed this issue.
Secondly, man does look on the outward appearance, and as long as a Christian is dressed modestly, whether they are dressed casually or formally is irrelevant. You have yet to prove that casual= immodest or vice versa. Immodesty can occur in any style of dress. In other words:
MODESTY= Modesty
IMMODESTY= Immodesty
Formal or casual has nothing to do with it.
For the record, I clarified my position, by using the words, "in my experience". In other words, stating what I have been told by nonbelievers when we have discussed this issue.
Secondly, man does look on the outward appearance, and as long as a Christian is dressed modestly, whether they are dressed casually or formally is irrelevant. You have yet to prove that casual= immodest or vice versa. Immodesty can occur in any style of dress. In other words:
MODESTY= Modesty
IMMODESTY= Immodesty
Formal or casual has nothing to do with it.
Hmmm. So let me get this straight. It's pharisaical to require people to adhere to a dress code, but it's not pharisaical require modest apparel.
You forgot to mention polo shirts and dockers. You've done very well "preaching" to those wearers in "love" as well.
And that is your right to do. It is not your right to impose your same dress standards upon any other church. But since you have, so far, failed miserably in your attempt to justify your "casual attire is scripturally wrong" claim with scripture, I certainly don't expect you to come up with scripture for your claim here.We've got a dress code for our members, not any and everybody else!!!
F
Filmproducer
Guest
Who's guidelines are you using to be "set apart"? If it's a coat and tie...it's the WORLDS! Society sets "how" one is to dress in their "best". Following these same guidelines and applying them to the church is not "setting apart" the dress in church, and dress in the "world". </font>[/QUOTE]You should step back a few years, then you wouldn't make so outlandish a statement.
Society says that one should have multiple sex partners this day in time. Church society says you should dress anyway you please, as long as you're comfortable.
If I decide to give my best to the Lord because he certainly gave His BEST for me, then that is my desire to do so. If you want to give your desire to be casual to the Lord when He gave you His BEST, then that is your business, but i actually belive you shouldn't be so lax in your stewardship and learn to dress better. </font>[/QUOTE]
casual attire in church equals a desire for multiple sex partners? What on earth does the world's justification of multiple sex partners have do with how one dresses for church? Sorry, I don't understand the logic of this argument. The one has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. We have already established that we all believe people should be dressed modestly in church, if they are believers.
Well one thing is the whole threat that is clearly seen is that as long as people like Salamander and his ilk are in the church, the pharisee will survive.
It is amazing to me how an individual can replace the clear teaching of Scripture with his legalistic view of things, then turn and judge his brother because of his dress. The term "white washed tombs" comes to mind; along with a cup that is only cleaned on the outside. The Scripture is the standard not the legalist's twisted view of the Scripture.
With that it is time to move on because the pharisees did not hear Jesus then and they wont hear His Word now.
Bro Tony
It is amazing to me how an individual can replace the clear teaching of Scripture with his legalistic view of things, then turn and judge his brother because of his dress. The term "white washed tombs" comes to mind; along with a cup that is only cleaned on the outside. The Scripture is the standard not the legalist's twisted view of the Scripture.
With that it is time to move on because the pharisees did not hear Jesus then and they wont hear His Word now.
Bro Tony
Salamander
New Member
The farther the church drifts away from the things of God, the more likened to the world it becomes.
God's way is one man for one woman, the world's way is any man for any woman on demand.
God's way is modesty and should be our best as in serving Him and not ourselves, man's way is to serve God in any way that he feels most comfortable. Ask Cain if this isn't true?
Able gave what wasn't comfortable for him to give, in that respect, but it was his best.
Cain gave what was comfortable to give and in his own opinion, it was his best too, but it was under the curse.
I am sorry if my mind jumps way ahead in logical terms that are really easily understood if one will take a moment to think about what was said.
Salamander
New Member
I dare you to come to my church and observe for yourself and we will see if you can still make so stupid a statement.
We reach to people I seriously doubt you would even give the time of day.
Lost people can't worship God, they know not what they worship according to John 4.
You fail to provide any evidence for the notion that casual attire = drifting away from the things of God. Hence, your statement here fails equally.
I can't think of a single person in my church who has had multiple sex partners. Most of them adhere to business casual attire, as do I and my family. In fact, my wife and I did not have sex until marriage, and my kids are virgins and proud of it.
No one disagrees with that. However, you have not made any correlation between casual attire and immodesty. None. Nothing in my, my wife's or my children's wardrobe that we wear to church is immodest, yet it is all casual. I asked you before to tell me what in our attire is immodest. You failed to do so.
I can find nothing in scriptuer that says you must wear uncomfortable clothing in order to serve God.
The story of Abel isn't about attire.
Your mind is jumping, but not with any sense of logic, not to mention any sense of scriptural support.
Easy to understand, yes. Likewise, easy to refute.
Salamander
New Member
Hmmm. So let me get this straight. It's pharisaical to require people to adhere to a dress code, but it's not pharisaical require modest apparel.
You forgot to mention polo shirts and dockers. You've done very well "preaching" to those wearers in "love" as well.
And that is your right to do. It is not your right to impose your same dress standards upon any other church. But since you have, so far, failed miserably in your attempt to justify your "casual attire is scripturally wrong" claim with scripture, I certainly don't expect you to come up with scripture for your claim here. </font>[/QUOTE]It is not your church's right to impose dress codes on the lost. Scripturally, you're the whited sepulchre full of dead men's bones. Jesus approached the man in Mark 5 and never said anything about his dress prior to saving his soul, but the statement is quite clear that after He made him whole and rid of the legion that the man was found "clothed and in his right mind"We've got a dress code for our members, not any and everybody else!!!
The condition is relevent that prior to salvation one is naked, the relevency of slavation is that one is now clothed. Nothing "casual" about that, But is quite formal in attire
F
Filmproducer
Guest
Uhmmm, okay. Where did you study the use of logic? Your arguments are FAR from logical. I suggest you take a refresher course.
Salamander
New Member
Uhmmm, okay. Where did you study the use of logic? Your arguments are FAR from logical. I suggest you take a refresher course. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe you should ask for a refund on Dr.Lungedeep's school of logic?
I have yet to argue, but I have stated many truths, of which you try to avert and pervert, but the principles are still the same.
The farther the chruch goes astray, the more casual the approach becomes to worship.
F
Filmproducer
Guest
The condition is relevent that prior to salvation one is naked, the relevency of slavation is that one is now clothed. Nothing "casual" about that, But is quite formal in attire
Clothed, yes. There is nothing in scripture that reveals a modern day sense of casual or formal attire. I seriously hope you are not equating casual attire with nakedness, because that is just plain asinine.
Clothed, yes. There is nothing in scripture that reveals a modern day sense of casual or formal attire. I seriously hope you are not equating casual attire with nakedness, because that is just plain asinine.
According to the Baptist Distinctives, it's not your right to impose your rules of dress on other churches. Yet you do without any authority.
You don't appear to have any knowlege of scriptuer on this topic to date. Why is this area any different?
Again, where is your scripture for your claim that casual attire is scripturally wrong? Where is your scripture for your claim that casuall attire is immodest, unedifying, or immoral? And, for the third time, which items in my family's wardrobe that we wear to church are immoral, immodest, or unedifying?
I don't expect you to answer any of those Questions. You haven't so far, and you can't, because your position is flat out incorrect.
None of your claims on this topic are truth. They're clearly perversions, not at all resembling scripture, yet you pass them off as scriptural.
You have yet to provide any support for the claim that casual attire leads the church astray, or is immoral, immodest, or unedifying.