Catholic Bashing Threads/Posts

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally Posted by GodlyWoman
Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...
...................................................................................

We do not worship the Bible, GW... we worship the God of the Bible. How do we worship Him? By obeying His Word.

 

[dcorbett]

Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...

Wow, good thing that Baptists are not and never were PROTESTANT.

 

[D28guy]

"Wow, good thing that Baptists are not and never were PROTESTANT."

Hmmmm.

Multitudes of Baptists are regularly and consistantly "protesting" against Catholicism on these boards along with the other evangelicals and pentecostals.

Mike

 

[Bro. James]

The Protestant Inquisition Page

Preach the Word. If they receive it, praise the Lord. If they reject it, go to the next town. Spending a lot of time on Mars Hills is not very productive spiritually.

Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.

Selah,

Bro. James

Born again, ex-Catholic, ex-Protestant, practicing primitive, sovereign grace heretic, Byzantine stream.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...

Godly Woman -- accepting the scriptures as our authority is not worship. But prayer most certainly is. We bow, physically, before our Lord in the prayerful example given us by His son.

The prayers of Christ in the gospels are always to His Father. That is the example we follow. Never, in any book of the Bible, is there an instruction to do otherwise.

We appreciate the fact that you continue to return, even in your frustration, and hope you will learn more about the differences between RCC and believers on this board. If you will turn to the scriptures while asking God for understanding, He will provide your needs.

 

[BobRyan]

Is prayer synonymous to worship with you people?

IS there ANY example in scripture of someone praying to someone that they do not worship?

Do we have ANY hint at all that Catholics do not PRAY as part of their worship services??

Obviously the answer to my question is "no".

Which means the answer to your question is "yes".

Hint: "Replace Mary" in this Papal statement with "GOD" and you have correct worship.

quote] prayer offered to the goddess – Mary

"Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, Oh Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother....we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature, from the moment of conception until the day on which after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe. Oh crystal fountain of
faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. Oh Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell. Oh well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, Oh Mary, cover our aching wound; convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred,
sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity and protect the Holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers...Receive, Oh sweet Mother our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us that on that day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars. You are beautiful Oh Mary. You are GloryOh Mary. You are the joy, you are the Honor of
our people." – Pope Pius XII, celebration of the Marian Year in Rome, 1950
[/quote]

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Also, the murders by Catholic authorities in centuries past and in other parts of the world do not mean that all Catholics are murderous.

That is clearly implied by the rhetoric of one of those posts.

That is true we should not consider that the members of the RCC today are guilty of the work of the RCC in the dark ages. The RCC has come out of some of that error in significant ways.

HOWEVER - one thing that RCC members today DO have to answer for - is that they have no clear statement from their own leaders even to this very day stating at a Papal level that torturing and murdering people was "wrong" NOR do they even have anything other than "INFALLABLE" as a summation for their LATERAN IV statement calling for the "EXTERMINATION" of Jews and dissenting Catholics.

They almost owned up to this at the turn of the Millennium.

Vatican Hosts Inquisition Symposium

By CANDICE HUGHES

.c The Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican assembled a blue-ribbon panel of scholars Thursday to examine the Inquisition and declared its readiness to submit the church's darkest institution to the judgment of history.

The three-day symposium is part of the Roman Catholic Church's countdown to 2000. Pope John Paul II wants the church to begin the new millennium with a clear conscience, which means facing up to past sins.

For many people, the Inquisition is one of the church's worst transgressions. For centuries, ecclesiastical ``thought police'' tried, tortured and burned people at the stake for heresy and other crimes.

``The church cannot cross the threshold of the new millennium without pressing its children to purify themselves in repentance for their errors, infidelity, incoherence,'' Cardinal Roger Etchegaray said, opening the conference.

The inquisitors went after Protestants, Jews, Muslims and presumed heretics. They persecuted scientists like Galileo. They banned the Bible in anything but Latin, which few ordinary people could read.

The Inquisition began in the 13th century and lasted into the 19th. An index of banned books endured even longer, until 1966. And it was 1992 before the church rehabilitated Galileo, condemned for saying the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

The symposium, which gathers experts from inside and outside the church, is the Vatican's first critical look at the church's record of repression.

Among other things, it will give scholars a chance to compare notes on what they've found in the secret Vatican archives on the Inquisition, which the Holy See only recently opened.

``The church is not afraid to submit its past to the judgment of history,'' said Etchegaray, a Frenchman who leads the Vatican's Commission on the Grand Jubilee.

Closed to the public and press, the symposium is not expected to produce any definitive statement from the Vatican on the Inquisition. That is expected in 2000 as part of the grand ``mea culpa'' at the start of Christianity's third millennium.

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

Etchegaray on Thursday swept aside the idea that it can be seen a series of local campaigns whose excesses might be blamed on secular authorities. There was only one Inquisition, he said, and it was undeniably an ecclesiastical institution.

The pontiff may give a hint as to his thinking on Saturday, when he meets with participants in the conference.

About 50 scholars from Europe, the United States and Latin America are taking part.

AP-NY-10-29-98 1403EST

 

[BobRyan]

Another indication that they were almost going to embrace the "clear conscience" suggestion in the above news article.

Catholic Church says must own up for Inquisition

By Alessandra Galloni

VATICAN CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Thursday said it had to take responsibility for one of the darkest eras in Roman Catholic church history and not lay blame for the Inquisition on civil prosecutors.

Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, head of the Vatican's main committee for the year 2000, opened a three-day symposium on the Inquisition saying it was time to re-examine the work of the special court the church set up in 1233 to curb heresy.

Etchegaray said some scholars claimed there were several inquisitions: one in Rome, which worked directly under the Holy See's control, and others in Spain and in Portugal which were often aided by the local civil courts.

``We cannot ignore the fact that this (attempt to distinguish between inquisitions) has allowed some to make apologetic arguments and lay responsibility for what Iberian tribunals did onto civil authorities,'' he said.

``The fact that the Spanish and Portuguese crowns...had powers of intervention...on inquisitory tribunals does not change the ecclesiastical character of the institution,'' he said.

Pope Gregory IX created the Inquisition to help curb heresy, but church officials soon began to count on civil authorities to fine, imprison and even torture heretics.

One of the Inquisition's best known victims was the astronomer Galileo, condemned for claiming the earth revolved around the sun.

The Inquisition reached its height in the 16th century to counter the Reformation. The department later became the Holy Office and its successor now is called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which controls the orthodoxy of Catholic teaching.

Some of the conclusions of the international symposium, which ends on Saturday, could be included in a major document in which the church is expected to ask forgiveness for its past errors as part of celebrations for the year 2000.

The church ``cannot pass into the new millennium without urging its sons to purify themselves, through penitence, of its errors, its infidelities and its incoherences...,'' Father Georges Cottier, a top Vatican theologian and head of the theological commission for the year 2000, told the symposium.

Etchegaray said the conference could also draw on examples that scholars had been able to examine since January, when the Vatican opened secret files.

The archives also opened the infamous Index of Forbidden Books which Roman Catholics were not allowed to read or possess on pain of excommunication. Even the bible was on the blacklist.

Pope John Paul has said in several documents and speeches that the Church needs to assume responsibility for the Inquisition, which was responsible for the forced conversion of Jews as well as the torture and killing of heretics.

While there may have been mitigating historical factors for the behaviour of some Catholics, the Pope has said this did not prevent the church from expressing regret for the wrongs of its members in some periods of history.

He initiated the procedure that led to the rehabilitation of Galileo, completed in 1992.

19:01 10-29-98

Sadly -- they never actually did it. They never actually said that Lateran IV policy of "extermination" was wrong OR that any act of torture of murder committed by the RCC was ever wrong.

They settled instead for vague statements about humanity and injustices done in the past. Surely in addition to the acts of "extermination" there were a lot of other "injustices" so that a reference to the more vague issue could be construed as still holding to an infallible Lateran IV statement on "extermination".

 

[BobRyan]

The Fourth Lateran Council, for example, the ecumenical council that dogmatized transubstantiation, declared (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/lat4-c3.html):

”Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure that as they wish to be esteemed and numbered among the faithful, so for the defense of the faith they ought publicly to take an oath that they will strive in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church; so that
whenever anyone shall have assumed authority, whether spiritual or temporal, let him be bound to confirm this decree by oath. But if a temporal ruler, after having been requested and admonished by the Church, should neglect to cleanse his territory of this heretical foulness, let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and the other bishops of the province. If he refuses to make satisfaction within a year, let the matter be made known to the supreme pontiff [the Pope], that he may declare the ruler's vassals absolved from their allegiance and may offer the territory to be ruled lay Catholics[/b], who on the extermination of the heretics may possess it without hindrance and preserve it in the purity of faith; the right, however, of the chief ruler is to be respected as long as he offers no obstacle in this matter and permits freedom of action. The same law is to be observed in regard to those
who have no chief rulers (that is, are independent). Catholics who have girded themselves with the cross for the extermination of the heretics, shall enjoy the indulgences and privileges granted to those who go in defense of the Holy Land.

Other councils, such as Vienna, issued anti-Semitic decrees that ordered the persecution of Jews. The persecution of other groups, such as the Waldensians, was also ordered by the RCC.

For example, Pope Innocent VIII issued a bull in 1487 ordering that people "rise up in arms against" and "tread under foot" the Waldensians.
Roman Catholic and former Jesuit Peter de Rosa writes in Vicars of Christ (Crown Publishers, 1988),

Catholic historian Peter de Rosa writes in Vicars of Christ (Crown Publishers, 1988), [b]"Of eighty popes in a line from the thirteenth century on not one of them disapproved of the theology and apparatus of the Inquisition. On the contrary, one after another added his own cruel touches to the workings of this deadly machine."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45674

Posted: August 9, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
I'm also encouraged by Benedict XVI, who seems to have inherited John Paul II's humility as well as his loyalty to foundational doctrines. On Jan. 22, 1998, when he was still a cardinal and the grand Inquisitor (yes!) of the Roman Catholic Church, he declared that their archives (4,500 large volumes) indicate a death toll of 25 million killed by the Catholic Church for being "heretics." And likely two-thirds of the original volumes are lost. That kind of honesty will help relations (though there is no basis for uniting the RCC with Bible-believing Protestant churches).

 

[BobRyan]

Being born again here on Earth is different than being resurrected at death and being born into a new life with God.

This is what is preached by Christians and Christian pastors:

Saved Believers will be resurrected from their graves, in His Time, and given Eternal Life through His Grace of Salvation.

So is it your belief that they get "two eternal lives" or "two eternal bodies"? One at death and one at resurrection?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

GodlyWoman

Some do not pray directly to Mary, the saints, and dead loved ones. They ask for intercession so that Mary, the saints, and dead loved ones will pray WITH THEM to God. It's no different when people at a Church ask their pastor, their congregation, their family, and their friends to pray with them.

If they are not praying to Mary when they ask Mary to pray to God for them -- who are they praying TO?

Praying TO God asking God to get Mary to Intercede for them?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...

Clearly we call "prayers to Mary and songs to Mary sung around HER ALTARS" -- a pagan form of worship but you may not see it that way.

You appear to be calling "the mere act of judging all doctrine and tradition against the rule of authority - scripture" to be "Bible worship".

Given those two cases -- what is your facts/data/history or evidence of any kind that the Acts 17:11 principle of "Studying the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things stated by Paul were SO" is WORSE than the RC tradition of worshipping Mary?

What makes it "worse"??

Recall that during the inquisition a lot of good Catholic christians were tortured and killed for refusal to worship Mary.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Bro. James]

Who is responsible?

The rank and file religious of the Middle Ages was duped by the holy see. The Inquisitors were various clergy with Jesuit clergy as henchmen. The ones being burned were the ones who refused to bow to Rome. A lot of Jews were taken out during the Spanish Inquisition--for crucifying Jesus??

The holy see continues to dupe: the priests taking advantage of altar boys is not new--it has been covered up along with every other abomination.

Pray for those given to strong delusion. They are everywhere.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[annsni]

Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...

As others have pointed out, we do not worship the Bible. The Bible is God's Word to us. It contains truth but I do not worship the book that is sitting next to my computer. If it were to burn in a house fire, I would not be sad - because I could get another one. If we were to permanently loose the WORDS in the Bible, I would be sad but we know that that will not happen. But I do not pray to the Bible. I do not expect the Bible to save me or to plead at the throne of grace for me. I do not expect it to interceed or do ANYTHING like that for me.

If saying that the Word of God is truth and something we should heed is scarier than bowing and supplicating to a dead person, then you have some pretty mixed up thoughts.

Being born again here on Earth is different than being resurrected at death and being born into a new life with God.

This is what is preached by Christians and Christian pastors:

Saved Believers will be resurrected from their graves, in His Time, and given Eternal Life through His Grace of Salvation.

This is true. However, it doesn't mean that we become gods - able to hear all, see all and do all. There's a HUGE difference!!

Some do not pray directly to Mary, the saints, and dead loved ones. They ask for intercession so that Mary, the saints, and dead loved ones will pray WITH THEM to God. It's no different when people at a Church ask their pastor, their congregation, their family, and their friends to pray with them.

Mary, the saints and dead loved ones do not hear our prayers. As I've stated before, they would need qualities that only God possesses - omniscience and omnipresence. They CANNOT hear the prayers of everyone on earth unless they have these qualities. When we ask a friend of someone else to pray for us, there's a big difference. THEY'RE HEARING US! Can I say out loud in my own home, "SIFC, can you pray for me?" and he hear me? No. He cannot hear me because he's not here. Neither are Mary, the saints or dead loved ones here. They cannot hear me at all. Yet praying to them IS worshipping them and that's expressly condemned in Scripture.

GodlyWoman - you can choose to pray to whoever you want but do not think that it pleases God. Scripture is very clear - and that is God's Word to us. If any belief, any tradition, any instruction from ANYONE WHOEVER THEY ARE contradicts Scripture, then it is not Scripture that is wrong. Period.

 

[Joe]

If saying that the Word of God is truth and something we should heed is scarier than bowing and supplicating to a dead person, then you have some pretty mixed up thoughts.

Imo, she is continuously denying the bible as the truth. It's useless. She is not a Godlywoman, as God is not who she lives for.

 

[donnA]

godlywoman=

When some pray to Mary, the saints, and dead loved ones and ask them to pray with them to God, they're praying to people who were resurrected into a new life with God in Heaven and are very much alive

The Bible says there is one mediator between man and God, and it's Jesus. Not Mary, or dead saints.

What do you believe happens to people who die if they're not born again and now living in the presence of God and are very much "alive"?

Only those are saved/ born again are in heaven with God, those not born again are in hell.

Quite honestly, many Protestants seem to worship the Bible as sole authority than Catholics worship Mary. And let me tell you, Bible worship is even more scarier than Mary worship!...

Worship, no, obey God, yes, as all christains are to do, which you can not do without scripture. You sound smore and more catholic everytime you post.

Being born again here on Earth is different than being resurrected at death and being born into a new life with God.

The resurection has not happened yet, it will at the end times, you seem confused.

Is prayer synonymous to worship with you people?

Yes, as according to what we see in scritpure.

 

[donnA]

Imo, she is continuously denying the bible as the truth. It's useless. She is not a Godlywoman, as God is not who she lives for.

I agree :BangHead:

 

[annsni]

Imo, she is continuously denying the bible as the truth. It's useless.

I agree Joe - but I do pray that through this dialogue, she begins to question maybe even just one "tradition" that is not Biblical. SIGH

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I also agree.

And may the Lord give us the same boldness to witness the truth to others we meet on a daily basis at work, home, the store, school, or just on the street... that we have on the BB.

 

[Joe]

I agree Joe - but I do pray that through this dialogue, she begins to question maybe even just one "tradition" that is not Biblical. SIGH

Would be a great start. I'll be praying raying:

:saint: <-- you