Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

[ascund]

I find it amazing that he quotes the first couple of commandments about how he believes the biblical commands against images and then flashes this image of the Pope blessing an image.

Originally posted by Pickerel:
A Picture speaks a thousand words?

Only Christ Saves!

A picture is worth a thousand words!
Lloyd

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
Well lets see some of the "practices" of the RCC...I heard say the "deity of Christ" and the "trinity" as being two of the doctrines that the RCC hold as gospel...I think a closer look is warranted to substantiate these claims...?

Lets take a look at the RCC's "New jesus" who is giving "New Revelations" throughout the world...

1) THE DIVINE MERCY IMAGE
The Image of the Divine Mercy

The earliest element of the Devotion to the Divine Mercy revealed to St. Faustina was the Image. On February 22nd, 1931 Jesus appeared to her with rays radiating from His heart and said, (Diary 47)

I promise that the soul that will venerate this image will not perish. I also promise victory over its enemies already here on earth, especially at the hour of death. I myself will defend it as My own glory. (Diary 48)

I am offering people a vessel with which they are to keep coming for graces to the fountain of mercy. That vessel is this image with the signature" :Jesus, I trust in You." (Diary 327)

The two rays denote Blood and Water. the pale ray stands for the Water which makes souls righteous. The red ray stands for the Blood which is the life of souls. These two rays issued forth from the very depths of My tender mercy when My agonized heart was opened by a lance on the Cross. These rays shield souls from the wrath of My Father. Happy is the one who dwell in their shelter, for the just hand of God shall not lay hold of him. (Diary 299)

Not in the beauty of the color, nor of the brush, lies the greatness of this image , but in My grace. (Diary 313)


By means of this image I shall grant many graces to souls. It is to be a reminder of the demands of My mercy, because even the strongest faith is of no avail without works. (Diary 742)

"YOU will prepare the world for the final coming" (Jesus to Sr. Faustina, 1; 178)

The Divine Mercy Devotion and Message has been approved by the Roman Catholic Church. Sr. Faustina was recently canonised on April 30, 2000, on Mercy Sunday - Second Sunday of Easter. This message of hope, revealed to her by Our Lord Himself and promulgated by her during her life, has been an inspiration to many - including myself. It is hoped that everyone who reads the following words may be reminded that God's love is infinite. His life is given to all who seek it regardless of their sinfulness.

"From now on, the Second Sunday of Easter will be called Divine Mercy Sunday."

Pope John Paul, 2000

"Where, if not in the Divine Mercy, can the world find refuge and the light of hope? Believers understand that perfectly"

John Paul the Second, 21st April, 1993.

Should we follow this Jesus of the RCC?? NEVER!!
What does our Bibles tell us?

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,

This is the "First RCC jesus"...

ONLY CHRIST SAVES!

Divine Mercy Image

Diary of a Soul

I never said that I agreed with everything that the CC teaches nor do I agree with everything that the baptist teaches, however i don't go around slandering either one. This is the big disagreement that I have with baptist.

I still haven't heard you argue directly what Johnv said. He gave you 3 things that the CC teaches which are scriptural. You keep avoiding the subject. Here just answer this question. Why is it not scriptural that the CC teaches about the trinity?

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by Pickerel:


Lets take a look at the RCC's "New jesus" who is giving "New Revelations" throughout the world...


Divine Mercy Image

Diary of a Soul

So why wouldn't Jesus continue to reveal himself to us? God revealed himself to us through the profits and through his Son. So why would he stop and just leave us alone here on earth?

 

[ascund]

Justification is by faith alone! Any religion or denomination that mixes human-centered self-righteousness with Christ's finished work on the Cross is a system of death that must be opposed.

Do you think that your theology is better than the traditional RCC because you can "see" one or two small things? You miss the majors to get lost in the minors.

Biblical justification is God's work alone. Don't get this statement confused with the Calvinistic doctrine of election. There are many outside of Calvinism that embrace God's initiatives without Calvin's doctrine of election.

Abraham was justified by faith alone (Romans 4). Any system that does not square with Abraham is heresy.

Quit majoring on trivia and learn about justification: the chief article by which the Church or an individual stands!

Lloyd

 

[Pickerel]

Will be back tomorrow..."Friends"...

Only Christ Saves!

 

[ascund]

D-U-H

Did you not read the first paragraph??

Originally posted by Pickerel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ascund:
I find it amazing that he quotes the first couple of commandments about how he believes the biblical commands against images and then flashes this image of the Pope blessing an image.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pickerel:
A Picture speaks a thousand words?

Only Christ Saves!

A picture is worth a thousand words!
Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]And you find nothing wrong with that?? Good grief!

Only Christ Saves! </font>[/QUOTE]Good grief is very appropriate!
Lloyd

 

[Pickerel]

You will find that I edited my post...sir...!

Only Christ Saves!

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
Well lets see some of the "practices" of the RCC...I heard say the "deity of Christ" and the "trinity" as being two of the doctrines that the RCC hold as gospel...I think a closer look is warranted to substantiate these claims...?

Lets take a look at the RCC's "New jesus" who is giving "New Revelations" throughout the world...

1) THE DIVINE MERCY IMAGE
The Image of the Divine Mercy

The earliest element of the Devotion to the Divine Mercy revealed to St. Faustina was the Image. On February 22nd, 1931 Jesus appeared to her with rays radiating from His heart and said, (Diary 47)

Did you continue reading? Here what the rest of the paragraph says.
The message of mercy is that God loves us — all of us —
no matter how great our sins. He wants us to recognize that
His mercy is greater than our sins, so that we will call upon
Him with trust, receive His mercy, and let it flow through us to
others. Thus, all will come to share His joy. It is a message
we can call to mind simply by remembering ABC.

A — Ask for His Mercy. God wants us to approach
Him in prayer constantly, repenting of our sins and
asking Him to pour His mercy out upon us and upon
the whole world.

B — Be merciful. God wants us to receive His mercy
and let it flow through us to others. He wants us to
extend love and forgiveness to others just as He does
to us.

C — Completely trust in Jesus. God wants us to know
that the graces of His mercy are dependent upon our
trust. The more we trust in Jesus, the more we will
receive.

How about in the OT when God told Moses to make an image of a snake, put it high on a pole so the people could look at it and they would be saved from the bite of the serpent. Where does this fit into your argument?

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by ascund:
D-U-H

Did you not read the first paragraph??

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pickerel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ascund:
I find it amazing that he quotes the first couple of commandments about how he believes the biblical commands against images and then flashes this image of the Pope blessing an image.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pickerel:
A Picture speaks a thousand words?

Only Christ Saves!

A picture is worth a thousand words!
Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]And you find nothing wrong with that?? Good grief!

Only Christ Saves! </font>[/QUOTE]Good grief is very appropriate!
Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]Or maybe you stopped reading when you got to this part:
In these texts the Church's doctrine on images, justification and grace are explained. First, by itself an image is merely a painting, no matter how beautiful and expressive. Yet, it can point us the mysteries of the faith and dispose us to grasp and receive what it represents, in this case the Divine Mercy. It is thus a vessel, not the source, a reminder, not the reality. The reality is the merciful fountain of grace flowing from the pierced Heart of Christ on the Cross....
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/image.htm

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
There are more ways to save within the RCC than at Wal-Mart...! Why do you think the Past Pope wore a Scapular around his neck constantly? The "virgin mary" has promised anyone dying with her scapular around their necks will be saved out of purgatory the first saturday of every month!

Still another example of how you twist words .

Brown Scapular
Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Carmelites)
A.D. 1251

"The Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mount Carmel," associated with the Carmelite Order, is the most well-known. In A.D. 16 July 1251, Our Lady appeared to St. Simon Stock in Cambridge, England after he prayed for help for his Order. She appeared to him with the scapular and said, "Take, beloved son this scapular of thy order as a badge of my confraternity and for thee and all Carmelites a special sign of grace; whoever dies in this garment, will not suffer everlasting fire. It is the sign of salvation, a safeguard in dangers, a pledge of peace and of the covenant."

Whether this happened exactly in this way or not (St. Simon's original descriptions of the vision are not extant and the wording may not be exact), the Scapular was given to St. Simon Stock, and the devotion spread and was well-known by the 16th c. What can be safely believed because of papal decree is the promise known as the "Sabbatine Privilege." The Sabbatine Privilege is the promise that Our Lady will intercede and pray for those in Purgatory who, in earthly life:


wore the Scapular in good faith;
were chaste according to their state in life;
daily recited the Divine Office or, with the permission of one's Confessor, the Little Office of Our Lady [a shorter form of the Divine Office in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, used by certain religious orders and laity. It is similar to the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the Roman Breviary] or the Rosary; and
departed earthly life in charity.

Warning: Some falsely believe that wearing the Brown Scapular offers some sort of guarantee of salvation because of the legendary words attributed to Our Lady. This is against Church teaching, is superstitious and a grave error. Sacramentals are not magical ways to manipulate God; they are Church-instituted rituals/objects that remind us of what we are supposed to be doing/thinking of, that depend on the faith, hope and love of the user, and which help prepare us to receive God's saving grace. You can get well-made, wool, traditionally-designed Brown Scapulars from this traditional Carmelite Order of nuns. I don't know the cost:

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/scapulars.html

 

[Bro. James]

Reprove, rebuke, exhort, and RIDICULE with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Are we being wise as serpents and harmless as doves?

Pray for those deceived, deluded souls who think they do God service. Only God can call. Only the Holy Spirit can convict. Only Jesus can save.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[ascund]

Greetings

Originally posted by ptl4evr:
Or maybe you stopped reading when you got to this part:
In these texts the Church's doctrine on images, justification and grace are explained. First, by itself an image is merely a painting, no matter how beautiful and expressive. Yet, it can point us the mysteries of the faith and dispose us to grasp and receive what it represents, in this case the Divine Mercy. It is thus a vessel, not the source, a reminder, not the reality. The reality is the merciful fountain of grace flowing from the pierced Heart of Christ on the Cross

I have nothing against a written document containing an explanation of justification and other aspects of dogma. Who is the long-haired, beared white guy in a white robe with a candle behind his head?

Don't get excited. This is another rhetorical question. Jesus wasn't a white guy. He was a Hebrew! In addition to the evils of worshipping images, you certainly have the wrong image to worship!

It is error to disguise one's worship of images with a pretty picture of some vile sinner and use it as a tool to worship God. Just because you can justify some ink on an image doesn't change the fact that the image is still an image.

Lloyd

 

[Pickerel]

Let's get to the "Second christ of rome"...The "Sacred Heart of Jesus"

What is the Saced heart of Jesus you say...? Well the "Sacred Heart" is the picture we see of Jesus in pictures And statues with his heart exposed encircled with thorns...!

Another "jesus" had appeared to Mary Alacoque...(A Nun)...In 1794, however, Pius VI issued a decree approving the devotion to the Sacred Heart and granting indulgences to those who practise it.

Devotion to the Sacred Heart is to worship the literal physical heart of Jesus, in effect to worship a "Body Part"...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Promises of the Sacred Heart of Jesus

Of the many promises Our Lord Jesus Christ did reveal to Saint Margaret Mary in favor of souls devoted to His Sacred Heart the principal ones are as follows:

1. I will give them all the graces necessary for their state of life.
2. I will give peace in their families.
3. I will console them in all their troubles.
4. I will be their refuge in life and especially in death.
5. I will abundantly bless all their undertakings.
6. Sinners shall find in my Heart the source and infinite ocean of mercy.
7. Tepid souls shall become fervent.
8. Fervent souls shall rise speedily to great perfection.
9. I will bless those places wherein the image of
My Sacred Heart shall be exposed and venerated.
10. I will give to priests the power to touch the most hardened hearts.
11. Persons who propagate this devotion shall
have their names eternally written in my Heart.
12. In the excess of the mercy of my Heart, I promise you that my all powerful love will grant to all those who will receive Communion on the First Fridays, for nine consecutive months, the grace of final repentance: they will not die in my displeasure, nor without receiving the sacraments; and my Heart will be their secure refuge in that last hour.

Sacred heart

Will I follow this "second christ of rome"? NEVER...!

Only Christ Saves!

 

[Pickerel]

As for the "Brown Scapular"...

The Brown Scapular

IT IS AN ASSURANCE OF SALVATION,

A PROTECTION IN DANGER,

AND A PLEDGE OF PEACE



"WHOSOEVER DIES CLOTHED

IN THIS (SCAPULAR) SHALL NOT

SUFFER ETERNAL FIRE."

This is the Blessed Virgin Mary's PROMISE,

made July 16, 1251, to St. Simon Stock.

The Value of the Scapular

Our Lord taught us to say the "Our Father." Mary taught us the value of the Scapular. When we use it as a prayer, Our Lady draws us to the Sacred Heart of her Divine Son. It is well, therefore, to HOLD THE SCAPULAR IN THE HAND while addressing Our Lady. A prayer uttered thus, while holding the mystical Scapular, is as perfect as a prayer can be. It is especially in TIME OF TEMPTATION that we need the powerful intercession of God's Mother. The evil spirit is utterly powerless when a Scapular-wearer, besides his silent devotion, faces temptation calling upon Mary. "If thou hadst recommended thyself to me, thou wouldst not have run into danger," was Our Lady's gentle reproach to Blessed Alan de la Roche.

*** Pope Benedict XV granted a partial indulgence EACH TIME the Scapular is kissed .***

Brown Scapular

Hmmm, why did the last Pope wear a scapular constantly??

Only Christ Saves!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
Well lets see some of the "practices" of the RCC...I heard say the "deity of Christ" and the "trinity" as being two of the doctrines that the RCC hold as gospel...I think a closer look is warranted to substantiate these claims...?

You asked for one scriptural doctrine that the RC teaches. I listed three (the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth of Jesus, and the Trinity). You're bending over backwards to paint me as a "pope defender". I do no such thing. I'm well aware of several teachings of the RCC that I believe are contrary to, or not in line with, scripture. Those weren't at issue here. The issue is that you asked for one scriptural RC doctrine, and I gave you more than one. You have since gone out of your way to not even acknowlege them. In stead, you do the "what about all these others" dance to dodge and weave.

 

[Pickerel]

I will be back tomorrow for the "third jesus" of the RCC's (trinity)??

Only Christ Saves!

 

[ptl4evr]

Pickerel,

You continue to twist words and take statements out of context. You are quoting other Catholic haters and not the official teaching of the CC. I made several post which proved you wrong and you refuse to acknowledge them. You were proven wrong by Johnv and you refuse to respond to his posts. My prayer is that you keep your opinions to yourself and stop spreading your message of hate which may be heard by those still young in there faith and be led astray. I will debate you no more. Goodbye.

 

[ascund]

Catholicism teaches that one must become perfect in order to be saved.

The Bible teaches that even in our best of states (Psa 39:5) we are but vanity. The heart is so desperately wicked (Jer 17:9) that even the best of our righteous deeds are filthy rags (Isa 64:6).

Catholicism is a system of human-centered death.

Lloyd

 

[Pickerel]

Originally posted by ascund:
Catholicism teaches that one must become perfect in order to be saved.

The Bible teaches that even in our best of states (Psa 39:5) we are but vanity. The heart is so desperately wicked (Jer 17:9) that even the best of our righteous deeds are filthy rags (Isa 64:6).

Catholicism is a system of human-centered death.

Lloyd

Lloyd...I just have to give you an "Amen" for that one...!

Only Christ Saves!

 

[Pickerel]

Let's look at the "third jesus" of the RCC...The Wafer christ...!

The Council of Trent

Session XIII: Decree Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist.

Chapter I: On the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist.

In the first place, the holy Synod teaches, and openly and simply professes, that, in the august sacrament of the holy Eucharist, after the consecration of the bread and wine, our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and man, is truly, really, and substantially contained under the species of those sensible things.

Chapter III: On the Excellency of the Most Holy Eucharist over the Rest of the Sacraments.

And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable body of our Lord, and his veritable blood, together with his soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine.. .Wherefore it is most true, that as much is contained under either species as under both; for Christ whole and entire is under the species of bread, and under any part whatsoever of that species; likewise the whole (Christ) is under the species of wine, and under the parts thereof.

Chapter V: On the Cult and Veneration to be Shown to This Most Holy sacrament.

Wherefore, there is no room left for doubt, that all the faithful of Christ may, according to the custom ever received in the Catholic Church, render in veneration the worship of latria, which is due to the true God, to this most holy sacrament. For not therefore is it the less to be adored on this account, that it was instituted by Christ, the Lord, in order to be received; for we believe the same God to be present therein, of whom the eternal Father, when introducing him into the world, says: And let all the angels of God worship him, whom the Magi, falling down, adored; who, in fine, as the Scripture testifies, was adored by the apostles in Galilee.

Canon I. If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that he is only therein as in a sign, or in a figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

Canon II. If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood—the species only of the bread and wine remaining—which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation: let him be anathema.

Canon VI. If any one saith, that, in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, is not to be adored with the worship, even external of latria; and is, consequently, neither to be venerated with a special festive solemnity, nor to be solemnly borne about in procession, according to the laudable and universal rite and custom of holy Church; or, is not to be proposed publicly to the people to be adored, and that the adorers thereof are idolators: let him be anathema.

Canon VIII. If any one saith, that Christ, given in the Eucharist, is eaten spiritually only, and not also sacramentally and really: let him be anathema (The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1919 ed.), pp. 126-131, 136-138).

The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism

1217. Is the Eucharist necessary for salvation?
The Eucharist is necessary for salvation, to be received either sacramentally or in desire. Christ’s words, “if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you” (John 6:53), mean that Holy Communion is necessary to sustain the life of grace in a person who has reached the age of reason (John Hardon, The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism (Garden City: Image, 1981).

Only Christ Saves!