Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

[Gup20]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1811332%2C00.html

The above article describes how the Catholic church is going down the slippery slope to dismisisng the Truth in scripture. Today, they are dismissing Genesis and parts of the new testament. All this does is open the door to dismissing other parts of the Bible. If the Bible can't be trusted in the secular, historical matters, how can we trust the spiritual to be true? Increasingly people - especially the younger generation - are asking themselves this question.

***** It is against BB posting policy to quote an entire (copywrited) article in your post. The link you have provided is quite adequate. (Post edited by Barnabas, your friendly BB Administrator) *****

[ October 11, 2005, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas J. Halo ]

 

[donnA]

The Catholic church dismissed the truth of scripture long ago.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by donnA:
The Catholic church dismissed the truth of scripture long ago.

So have most "BAPTIST", God's word has "passed away" and we have to wade through a "Briarpatch" of mistakes/errors searching for that little bit of "TRUTH" left in the book we call the "Bible".

Them that is of the "TRUTH", will know the "TRUTH".

 

[Chemnitz]

I think it should be noted that this article is only about one part of the RCC not the RCC as a whole.

 

[ascund]

Greetings

Me4Him has written a sad little truth about Christendom in general. Post modern theology is trying to addresses the recent self-centered pluralistic culture. Many books are now being written trying to address the center of evangelical theology.

Christian history is basically history about wayward attempts to understand God's Word. Most "famous" theologians from past centuries are simply those who put together an attractive - but errant - view of God's atonement through Jesus Christ.

Today, the same old heretical views are still with us. We still face the following heresies:
--- water baptism saves
--- faith plus works
--- self-righteousness instead of Christ's righteousness
--- atonement is being cut away from the penal theory of atonement
--- the liberals' historical Jesus
--- angeology
--- etc

The reformation motto is still valid (even if one isn't a Calvinist)! Salvation is by God's grace - alone; through Christ alone; by faith alone!

Any other way is heresy!
Lloyd

 

[billwald]

The Bible is sufficient for faith and practice (morals). Not necessary for anything else.

 

[ptl4evr]

What document is this person referring to? I don't see any proof to this person's argument no quotes, no refrences. Don't beleive everything you read. I grew up in the Catholic church and have done much research about her beleifs. Much of what this person says are misquotes and taken out of context. Catholics aren't really the demons that people make them out to be. Let's show christian love for everyone not slander them.

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by ascund:
Greetings

Me4Him has written a sad little truth about Christendom in general. Post modern theology is trying to addresses the recent self-centered pluralistic culture. Many books are now being written trying to address the center of evangelical theology.

Christian history is basically history about wayward attempts to understand God's Word. Most "famous" theologians from past centuries are simply those who put together an attractive - but errant - view of God's atonement through Jesus Christ.

Today, the same old heretical views are still with us. We still face the following heresies:
--- water baptism saves
--- faith plus works
--- self-righteousness instead of Christ's righteousness
--- atonement is being cut away from the penal theory of atonement
--- the liberals' historical Jesus
--- angeology
--- etc

The reformation motto is still valid (even if one isn't a Calvinist)! Salvation is by God's grace - alone; through Christ alone; by faith alone!

Any other way is heresy!
Lloyd

If you are saying that the catholic church teaches these thing then I must say you are wrong. Don't just beleive what hateful people tell you. Do the research for yourself. I really don't understand the hate for the catholic church or why people say they are not christian.

 

[ascund]

Hey ptl4evr

Have you had your head in the sand for 1700 years? Specifically, just look up the Councils of Trent.

From the SIXTH SESSION on justification. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html.

"faith co-operating with good works, increase in that justice which they have received through the grace of Christ" - Chapter X

"Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God" - Chapter XVI

"we are justified from its [justice] being inherent in us" - Chapter XVI

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified" Canon IX

"If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ" Canon" - XI

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." CANON XIV


From the SEVENTH SESSION on the sacraments in general. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation" Canon IV

"If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema." CANON VIII.


From the SEVENTH SESSION on baptism. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema." CANON II.


At least know your own position before you speak foolishness will trying to answer difficult questions posed by others.

Lloyd

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by ascund:
Hey ptl4evr

Have you had your head in the sand for 1700 years? Specifically, just look up the Councils of Trent.

From the SIXTH SESSION on justification. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html.

"faith co-operating with good works, increase in that justice which they have received through the grace of Christ" - Chapter X

"Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God" - Chapter XVI

"we are justified from its [justice] being inherent in us" - Chapter XVI

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified" Canon IX

"If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ" Canon" - XI

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." CANON XIV


From the SEVENTH SESSION on the sacraments in general. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation" Canon IV

"If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema." CANON VIII.


From the SEVENTH SESSION on baptism. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema." CANON II.


At least know your own position before you speak foolishness will trying to answer difficult questions posed by others.

Lloyd

OK I'll play the devils advocate here...it looks to me that all these quotes were taken out of context. I would like to read the entire text before I come to any conclusions.

 

[ptl4evr]

here's a link that refues the article in the OP. Let's not be closed minded here.

go to the link and click on the second picture.
www.catholicintl.com

 

[ptl4evr]

Originally posted by ascund:
Hey ptl4evr

Have you had your head in the sand for 1700 years? Specifically, just look up the Councils of Trent.

From the SIXTH SESSION on justification. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html.

"faith co-operating with good works, increase in that justice which they have received through the grace of Christ" - Chapter X

"Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God" - Chapter XVI

"we are justified from its [justice] being inherent in us" - Chapter XVI

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified" Canon IX

"If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ" Canon" - XI

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." CANON XIV


From the SEVENTH SESSION on the sacraments in general. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation" Canon IV

"If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema." CANON VIII.


From the SEVENTH SESSION on baptism. Check it out at: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct07.html.

"If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema." CANON II.


At least know your own position before you speak foolishness will trying to answer difficult questions posed by others.

Lloyd

Yeah my heads been in the sand for 1700 years(rolling my eyes)

Actually I do know my position on this. I really don't think you know what the catholic position on works is. I have spent years researching the topic. I know what the truth is and I beleive they are correct on this particular teaching. I care not to waste my time debating it with you because you are probably(like most baptists) so ground in you single minded view of other religions that I could never convince you otherwise. You are probably someone who beleives that if someone professes faith in Christ in a sunday school class when they are 10 and never do a good deed in there life they will die and go to heaven. How proposterous!

 

[steaver]

Posted by Pt:

You are probably someone who beleives that if someone professes faith in Christ in a sunday school class when they are 10 and never do a good deed in there life they will die and go to heaven. How proposterous!

Proposterous indeed! True faith will always generate good deeds/works (James 2:14-26). Still doesn't mean deeds have any part in the initial justification.

God Bless!

 

[webdog]

Actually I do know my position on this. I really don't think you know what the catholic position on works is. I have spent years researching the topic. I know what the truth is and I beleive they are correct on this particular teaching. I care not to waste my time debating it with you because you are probably(like most baptists) so ground in you single minded view of other religions that I could never convince you otherwise. You are probably someone who beleives that if someone professes faith in Christ in a sunday school class when they are 10 and never do a good deed in there life they will die and go to heaven. How proposterous!

Translation: I can't prove my false doctrine through my "years" of "researching". Comon, man! You can do better than that! Lloyd showed you your own quoted doctrine. You can't refute that!

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by steaver:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Posted by Pt:

You are probably someone who beleives that if someone professes faith in Christ in a sunday school class when they are 10 and never do a good deed in there life they will die and go to heaven. How proposterous!

Proposterous indeed! True faith will always generate good deeds/works (James 2:14-26). Still doesn't mean deeds have any part in the initial justification.

God Bless!

</font>[/QUOTE]Catholics don't believe that either - or at least if they do they are at variance with their Church's teaching on the subject.

Ascund, you might want to consult the Augsburg Declaration of 1999 to see that Catholics and Protestants basically agree on justification by faith, albeit with different emphases

I'm not sure what is 'news' about the OP - Catholic theologians and Biblican scholars - along with those of most mainstream denominations - have long taken a non-literalist view of Scripture. "In other news, Pope Benedict confesses to being Catholic shock"

 

[ascund]

Hey Matt

Your reference to the Augsburg Declaration of 1999 is their so-called "Joint Declaration" on justification.

It only shows that Lutherans have drifted from the biblical position and are now as theological blind as Catholics.

The supposed agreement on justification by faith, albeit with different emphases, hinges on the word "alone."

Both the Catholic PROCESS justification and biblical EVENT justification begin by faith. Both are in agreement here.

The differences begin at the very next step. The Catholic PROCESS justification makes the person purified from within through a continuous PROCESS of spiritual growth. If that process ever stops, then the believer does not merit eternal life.

The biblical EVENT justification declares the person just on the basis of an EXTERNAL righteousness: Jesus Christ's righteousness!

The difference is quite stark. Your proposed link only shows that you cannot read for yourself for you do not understand the two positions.

Lloyd

 

[Pickerel]

There are more ways to save within the RCC than at Wal-Mart...! Why do you think the Past Pope wore a Scapular around his neck constantly? The "virgin mary" has promised anyone dying with her scapular around their necks will be saved out of purgatory the first saturday of every month!

Canon XI. If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified is only the favor of God: let him be anathema.

All I know is Medals, Scapulars, Popes, Mary, Images, Sacraments, Relics, do not Save...
ONLY CHRIST SAVES!

 

[Matt Black]

Ascund, I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. Neither do Catholics or Lutherans, or Anglicans for that matter.

 

[ascund]

Hey Matt

You said:

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. Neither do Catholics or Lutherans, or Anglicans for that matter.

This is the whole issue. The Bible presents justification by faith alone! Catholicism presents justification by faith followed by good works.

While the overlap is visible, they are nutually exclusive because of the word "alone."

If you ignore the word alone, then you can find lots of agreement. Faith, sanctification, good works, eschatology, etc. When you add the word alone, there is no mutuality.

Lloyd

 

[Matt Black]

except it was Luther who naughtily added the word 'allein' in...