Catholic Mary

[Moriah]

Mary is a servant to God, the angels are servants to God, and true believers are servants to God. WE ARE NOT TO BOW TO ANYONE NOR IS ANYONE TO BOW TO US.

Acts 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
Acts 10:26 But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

Mary was only a woman herself! God blessed Mary among women, not blessed to be exalted above all humankind. Worship God!

 

[Walter]

Same old garbage questions. They are inane. Can't you come up with something more original?
Where in the Bible does it say "theology" [study of God]?
Or have you given up on the study of God because it is not found in the Bible?

Seek and ye shall find.

I've been trying to do more reading and less commenting on these anti-Catholic threads but I'm not sure why these are 'garbage questions'. Seems like Thinkingstuff has a point. From my reading it seems that the Catholic Church is responsible for hammering out the doctrine of the Trinity (and other doctrines that Baptist adhere to), not the so called 'baptistic churches that some have claimed to have been around from the time of the Apostles.

 

[Walter]

Mary is a servant to God, the angels are servants to God, and true believers are servants to God. WE ARE NOT TO BOW TO ANYONE NOR IS ANYONE TO BOW TO US.

Acts 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
Acts 10:26 But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

Mary was only a woman herself! God blessed Mary among women, not blessed to be exalted above all humankind. Worship God!

Since you brought it up again. You answered my question on another thread by claiming that performers during ballet performences only bow to the audience at the conclusion of a performance. This is garbage. Any honest research on your part will show you are WRONG. Performers bow TO their teacher and TO the pianist. They also bow TO the audience but that is in addition to the aforementioned teachers and musicians.Do some actual research and not make rediculous claims that you cannot support.

Your response to my question to Japanese Christians and whether it is proper for them to bow TO each other in greeting was also ridiculous. Your response was 'I don't live in Japan!'. Is that honestly answering the question? Must I live in the U.S. and not in those countries where it is the custom to bow in greeting to each other to now be guilty of what you claim. That NO Christian should ever bow to each other. Would love for Christians living in Japan or Africa to respond to this. Maybe there are none on this board. You have not been honest in your responses. And your accusation that I'm 'Not Right'? Back atcha!!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Same old garbage questions. They are inane. Can't you come up with something more original?
Where in the Bible does it say "theology" [study of God]?
Or have you given up on the study of God because it is not found in the Bible?

Grasping at straws. Desperate people do desperate things.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Grasping at straws. Desperate people do desperate things.

Then you should stop grasping at straws and do research.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Same old garbage questions. They are inane. Can't you come up with something more original?
Where in the Bible does it say "theology" [study of God]?
Or have you given up on the study of God because it is not found in the Bible?

Seek and ye shall find.

Because what I'm saying is the truth. You are not quite honest about your belief. You say you believe in the bible alone yet items that aren't in the bible you believe. Yet you have the audacity to tell some one that they can't believe anything not in the bible.

I pose the same question to you have you given up actual study of God because the word theology isn't in it? I haven't given up. I still study. Have you ever read Thomas Aquinas? Its a good read on the study of God.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I've been trying to do more reading and less commenting on these anti-Catholic threads but I'm not sure why these are 'garbage questions'. Seems like Thinkingstuff has a point. From my reading it seems that the Catholic Church is responsible for hammering out the doctrine of the Trinity (and other doctrines that Baptist adhere to), not the so called 'baptistic churches that some have claimed to have been around from the time of the Apostles.

Ah quickly they forget what the bible does say about Mary

God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”

From now on all generations will call me blessed, 49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me— holy is his name.

Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”

They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus... When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

mor 3 1/2 years in Egypt. Mary is therefore the queen mother like David's mother and Solomon's mother. Queen mother as it described here.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Have you ever read Thomas Aquinas?

We dont encounter un-deluted truth from Aquinas, just like we dont get undeluted truth from evangelical thinkers.

Undeluted truth is found in the scriptures.

And it is absolutely impossible to justify the massive overflow of heresy and blasphemy that flows from Maryolatry, in all its various forms of wickedness.

And just like evil in general, maryolatry can *appear* to be "beautifull" at 1st glance.

Just like the Apple
and just like Satan

 

[Moriah]

Since you brought it up again. You answered my question on another thread by claiming that performers during ballet performences only bow to the audience at the conclusion of a performance. This is garbage. Any honest research on your part will show you are WRONG. Performers bow TO their teacher and TO the pianist. They also bow TO the audience but that is in addition to the aforementioned teachers and musicians.Do some actual research and not make rediculous claims that you cannot support.

Your response to my question to Japanese Christians and whether it is proper for them to bow TO each other in greeting was also ridiculous. Your response was 'I don't live in Japan!'. Is that honestly answering the question? Must I live in the U.S. and not in those countries where it is the custom to bow in greeting to each other to now be guilty of what you claim. That NO Christian should ever bow to each other. Would love for Christians living in Japan or Africa to respond to this. Maybe there are none on this board. You have not been honest in your responses. And your accusation that I'm 'Not Right'? Back atcha!!

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SPIRITUAL THINGS, NOT ABOUT A RIDICULOUS CUSTOM OR A BALLET RECITAL! We are talking about spiritual matters! You are too worldly and full of idolatry to follow a conversation about the Truth!
The Catholic Pope is supposed to be about spiritual matters! So do NOT bow to him! Mary is a human, and a servant to the Lord, so do NOT bow to her!

 

[Walter]

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SPIRITUAL THINGS, NOT ABOUT A RIDICULOUS CUSTOM OR A BALLET RECITAL! We are talking about spiritual matters! You are too worldly and full of idolatry to follow a conversation about the Truth!
The Catholic Pope is supposed to be about spiritual matters! So do NOT bow to him! Mary is a human, and a servant to the Lord, so do NOT bow to her!

So now I am worldly and an idolater? False accusations are a violation of the rules. You mentioned to DHK on another thread that you were trying to point out Catholic errors 'in love' and chastising him for what you perceived was arrogance. Kettle/Black???

 

[Moriah]

So now I am worldly and an idolater? False accusations are a violation of the rules. You mentioned to DHK on another thread that you were trying to point out Catholic errors 'in love' and chastising him for what you perceived was arrogance. Kettle/Black???

I do not falsely accuse. You are an idolater. I talk about scriptures and not bowing to the Pope and Mary, yet you talk of ridiculous ballet shows, and Japanese and British customs!

I tell you that you are an idolater so that you can confess and repent and be forgiven, and you think that is wrong of me. You do not see the love in that because you do not love the truth.

As for "chastising" DHK about how he spoke to Catholics, it was to show him not to judge me how I try to reach others.

I hope you repent for defending the bowing to the Pope and Mary.

 

[Walter]

I do not falsely accuse. You are an idolater. I talk about scriptures and not bowing to the Pope and Mary, yet you talk of ridiculous ballet shows, and Japanese and British customs!

I tell you that you are an idolater so that you can confess and repent and be forgiven, and you think that is wrong of me. You do not see the love in that because you do not love the truth.

As for "chastising" DHK about how he spoke to Catholics, it was showing him not to judge me how I try to reach others.

I hope you repent for defending the bowing to the Pope and Mary.

Now you continue to make FALSE ACCUSTIONS. Show me a single post that supports your claim that I am an idolator. If you cannot you need to apologize.

 

[Moriah]

Now you continue to make FALSE ACCUSTIONS. Show me a single post that supports your claim that I am an idolator. If you cannot you need to apologize.

YOU DEFEND BOWING TO THE POPE AND MARY. THAT MAKES YOU AN IDOLATER.

You apologize to God, through Jesus.

When you do, many wonderful things can happen for you.

 

[Moriah]

Here is some definitions of idolater, from The Free Dictionary.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idolater

i·dol·a·ter or i·dol·a·tor (-dl-tr)
n.
1. One who worships idols.
2. One who blindly or excessively admires or adores another.

Here is the definition from Your Dictionary:

1. a person who worships an idol or idols
2. a devoted admirer; adorer


You are an idolater if you bow to the Pope and Mary. We are only to worship God!

 

[Walter]

Here is some definitions of idolater, from The Free Dictionary.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idolater

i·dol·a·ter or i·dol·a·tor (-dl-tr)
n.
1. One who worships idols.
2. One who blindly or excessively admires or adores another.

Here is the definition from Your Dictionary:

1. a person who worships an idol or idols
2. a devoted admirer; adorer


You are an idolater if you bow to the Pope and Mary. We are only to worship God!

Well, Moriah, by this post you only show that you have made a false accusation about me. In not one of my posts do I claim to worship an idol. In not one of my posts do I claim to be a devoted admirer/adorer of an idol or anything other than God. I know who and what I worship and it isn't idols. So once more, you don't know what you are talking about. You continue to start threads then do a lousy job of defending your accusations You depend on other on the board to fight your fights. When you are losing the debate you resort to this kind of nonsense.

I have asked legitimate questions and from you I have got nothing but nast and false accusations. You do not show a shred of the love of Christ in your posts. Only hatred for Catholics. I pity you.

And with that, I am going back to watching on the sidelines. I wasn't going to continue to respond but when someone is bearing false witness like this, they need to be called on it.

 

[DHK]

I've been trying to do more reading and less commenting on these anti-Catholic threads but I'm not sure why these are 'garbage questions'.

They weren't questions at all. It was typical Catholic rhetoric. I asked four or five legitimate questions about Mary, that if true, should be found in the Bible. Please show me these doctrines from the Bible. My answer was a lot of needless sarcastic and rude rhetoric. It was no answer at all. Why? He is unable to answer the questions I asked him.

Seems like Thinkingstuff has a point. From my reading it seems that the Catholic Church is responsible for hammering out the doctrine of the Trinity

That is urban myth. Please check your facts (from non-Catholic sources). The trinity was fully known and understood before the RCC ever came into existence.

(and other doctrines that Baptist adhere to), not the so called 'baptistic churches that some have claimed to have been around from the time of the Apostles.

Christianity as a whole has been around a lot longer than the RCC.

If TS was honest with himself he would answer the questions (not avoid) that I gave him, instead of giving a post full of worthless rhetoric. If you want to add to an intelligent conversation go to the post before the one you quoted here and answer those questions concerning Mary that I set forth for TS.

 

[DHK]

Because what I'm saying is the truth. You are not quite honest about your belief. You say you believe in the bible alone yet items that aren't in the bible you believe. Yet you have the audacity to tell some one that they can't believe anything not in the bible.

You are posting with deceit, not truth.
You are avoiding questions deceitfully. There is no truth in deceit.
You can't answer the questions I posed to you so you use a rabbit trail to deceitfully go off on another trail.
What happened to the questions I posed to you about Mary? No answer, eh? And there won't be one coming will there? There is no answer from the Bible. You can't give one. So perhaps Moriah was right. It was straight out of paganism. I should cede to his sources because instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt you won't even answer or attempt to give an answer from the Bible.

Look at your deceitful answer. I asked you four or five questions.
You just accused me about not being honest about my answer.
That is a lie. I didn't give an answer. I asked you questions to answer. Have you ever heard of the command: "Thou shalt not lie."
Yes, I believe the Bible alone, or that it is the final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine.
Now look at your deceitful answer. You said "trinity" is not in the Bible.
1. Though the word isn't there, the concept is, and it was believed long before the RCC came into existence.
2. The Assumption of Mary wasn't made official doctrine until 1950. It is a man-made myth that is not in the Bible at all. See the deceit here. The concept of the trinity is in the Bible. The Assumption is not. Your accusation is not only deceitful and misleading. You have not even attempted to answer my question.
3. Your accusatory deceitful answer again: "you have the audacity to tell some one that they can't believe anything not in the bible," is totally false. I put forth the challenge, "show me from the Bible." If you are unable then say that you are inept, unable, ignorant, can't do it, etc. and concede defeat. But don't accuse me of something I didn't do.

I pose the same question to you have you given up actual study of God because the word theology isn't in it? I haven't given up. I still study. Have you ever read Thomas Aquinas? Its a good read on the study of God.

I am interested in the Bible not those who teach false doctrine. Aquinas is not inspired; the Bible is.

 

[Walter]

They weren't questions at all. It was typical Catholic rhetoric. I asked four or five legitimate questions about Mary, that if true, should be found in the Bible. Please show me these doctrines from the Bible. My answer was a lot of needless sarcastic and rude rhetoric. It was no answer at all. Why? He is unable to answer the questions I asked him.

That is urban myth. Please check your facts (from non-Catholic sources). The trinity was fully known and understood before the RCC ever came into existence.

Christianity as a whole has been around a lot longer than the RCC.

If TS was honest with himself he would answer the questions (not avoid) that I gave him, instead of giving a post full of worthless rhetoric. If you want to add to an intelligent conversation go to the post before the one you quoted here and answer those questions concerning Mary that I set forth for TS.

DHK, I am trying to read both Catholic and non-Catholic sources on the questions you asked and others that I have myself. Truthfully, I don't know how to answer them but I am not here to defend Catholicism, as some accuse me, but rather to get some answers about it. I am depending more on the Catechism of the Catholic Church for answers to what that church actually teaches rather than their apologists/theologians as I suspect they do not all agree anymore than all non-Catholic apologists/theologians agree and I want the official position of the Catholic Church.

 

[DHK]

DHK, I am trying to read both Catholic and non-Catholic sources on the questions you asked and others that I have myself. Truthfully, I don't know how to answer them but I am not here to defend Catholicism, as some accuse me, but rather to get some answers about it. I am depending more on the Catechism of the Catholic Church for answers to what that church actually teaches rather than their apologists/theologians as I suspect they do not all agree anymore than all non-Catholic apologists/theologians agree and I want the official position of the Catholic Church.

Then at least take two different approaches as I did when I got saved.
I was 20 years in the RCC. I knew what they taught me. I almost went into the priesthood. I had been studying my Bible for about a year. I put down the Catholic doctrine according to the RCC and compared that doctrine according to the Bible. I had to choose between the two. They were at polar extremes. I chose the Bible, and found a good Bible believing church, that is, one that taught out of the Bible consistently.

What case do you have for all the mythical inventions that do surround Mary that are entirely unsupported by the Bible. For example:
The Assumption of Mary
The Immaculate Conception of Mary
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
That Mary is able to Intercede for us

Above are the original questions that I asked TS.
Find out what the Catechism gives for an answer.
Find out what the Bible gives for an answer.
Compare.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Walter...You said...

Well, Moriah, by this post you only show that you have made a false accusation about me. In not one of my posts do I claim to worship an idol.

You are playing word games now. trying to wiggle out of the truth, with silly little word games.

Here is an example:

Lets say that your son is arrested for shoplifting. The police come to your door with your son and the evidence. You talk to your son and this is how it goes...

You: How could you have done this! You are in big trouble now. Not just with the law, but you are also with me.

Your son:

But I didnt steal anything dad, I an inocent of stealing.

What! The police have the evidence, and they caught you on the security cameras!!. Hoe dare you lie to me!

Your son:

It doesnt matter, Dad. You see, I...dont...call...it "stealing" I call it permanent borrowing! See?? Its a completly different word ! I didnt "steal" anything!, I just permanetly *borrowed* those items.

Now, would that fly with you and you son? Didn't think so.

But that what you are doing.

You say "...I never said I worship Mary!.

You dont start worshipping Mary when you say to all your friends...Hey, I've started worshipping Mary!

You worship Mary when you treat her, and speak of her, and consider her, in ways that CLEARLY meet the definetion of worship.

I was raised catholic, and I, and everyone else my family and the parish, worshipped her as a Goddess constantly. ALL CATHOLICS DO!

You cant go through the mass, pray the rosary, light candles at the feet of a giant Mary statue, or multitudes of other practices and ceremonies WITHOUT worshipping Mary. It is intrinct to everything they do.

Please Walter, think!! Dont let them get away with the indoctrniation!