Catholic Priests leaving the RCC

[D28guy]

Carson,

I spoke of the gospel being that we are justified though faith alone, and you said...

"I asked you, "Would you please show me where, in Scripture, the Gospel is described as you describe it?," and you responded with 'If I tried I would still be here 8 hours from now typing away when the sun comes up'."That's a non-answer."

It is an answer. Everyone who read it, including you, knows the point I was making.

"If you can't show where in the Bible, it says (in so many words, similar or less), "The Gospel is how you get saved by faith alone wherein you have eternal security," then you have no basis for claiming that the Gospel is what you say it is."

Those truths are thundered in abundance in the scriptures.

I said...

"You didnt share the most important part of the Gospel...how one can be justified before God and be eternally saved."

And you said...

"But that is not what Paul describes as the Gospel. Certainly, the Gospel has soteriological implications, but to say that these implications are the Gospel is to redefine the Gospel apart from what the Bible defines it as. You are essentially changing the meaning of Biblical words to suit your own purposes."

No, I am not. I am sharing the truth of the gospel.

I said...

"That is through faith, and faith alone in Christ substitutionary work on our behalf."

And you said

"The Bible does not teach this."

It sure does. Over and over again.

"Since this teaching runs contrary to what the Bible teaches, you should not expect to find it taught in a Catholic Church."

ROTFL!!! Are actually saying that everything the (((catholic church))) teaches is found in the scriptures?????

Are you trying to be Baptist Boards David Letterman or something?

I said...

"I appreciate that, but that doesnt have anything to do with what we are talking about. This is now, and right now the gospel...or "good news"...is what saves us."

And you said...

"The Gospel hasn't changed, Mike. It is the same today as it was in Paul's day. It certainly matters what it meant for Paul because what it meant for Paul is what it means for us today."

Of course the gospel hasnt changed. In spite of the Catholic churches attempts to change it.

I said...

"I am a dispensationalist and I do understand that in different dispensations God had dealt with His people in different ways ... through the sacrifice of the animals"

And you said...

"If you think that Jews are saved by their animal sacrifices in a different way than we are saved, then you are nullifying Christ's universal prerogative as Saviour."

Either you didnt read my entire statement or you are choosing now to slander me. Here is my entire statement...

" I am a dispensationalist and I do understand that in different dispensations God had dealt with His people in different ways, but with faith being at the heart of them at all times.(Such as the jews faith in Gods faithfullness to them through the sacrifice of the animals, which represented Christ of course.)"

I'll choose to believe the best of you, and not that you are choosing to slander me.

"I encourage you to read the Book of Hebrews with regard to what it teaches about animal sacrifice and its efficacy."

Hebrews has a great deal to say about that.

Including that Christs sacrificial offering was a once for all time sacrifice, and it not to be repeated. The Catholic church is in desperate need of getting a grip on that. (The "sacrifice" of the mass?)

I said...

"Submitting to Gods Kingship will affect our walk here on earth, but that is not a condition for salvation. That would be a gospel of works."

And you said...

"That's not what Paul says. How does Paul start off Romans in the first chapter?"

I'm afraid it is what God taught, through Paul, in Romans.

"For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. not of works, lest any man should boast."

Praise the Lord!

I'll check out the article.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Brother Adam]

Actually, Adam, Mioque made this claim, not me. I am just looking for information. It seems very silly to me that priests and nuns would not know their own faith, and yet that is what people on this board are claiming.

Sorry, the accidently left the previous two originally posted by's. Moniques name is there too though, and is addressed to her.

 

[Brother Adam]

If a person grows up and participates (RCIA, CCD) in a church, shouldn't they be taught what that church believes?? If they are being taught differently, isn't the church to blame too?

You better believe it! Carsons pretty passionate on this subject.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by mioque:
"I would encourage you to attend Moody Bible Institue in Chicago or Dallas Theological Seminary and get yourself a Biblical education that no-one will be able to effectively combat"
Graduates from this will.
http://ebaf.op.org/

Ahhh - defending Catholicism with "obtuse fallacies" and refuting the Dallas Seminary --

I finally found Mioque's "mission".

No wonder he surfaces so quickly whenever Catholic sources are published - showing the flaws in Catholicism.

It is all starting to fit together.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mioque]

JustAsIAm
"How can a church claim that its teachings are infallible when those entrusted with teaching those beliefs don't know them??"
The vast majority of nuns worldwide aren't teachers, religious or otherwise.
Even the ones that are, are more likely to teach kindergarten than RC theology.
That doesn't change the fact that I have ran into a couple of nuns that had the sort of indepth Bible knowledge nobody on the entire Baptist Board has*. But those are the exception.


*The sister that helped me with my study of Origenes was a walking Hexapla herself, literally knowing 6 different versions of the entire Old Testament by heart.

 

[mioque]

Brother Adam (asking about the nuns)
"Source?"
The KDC archives located in Nijmegen. I had a job there during a large part of my university years. Lots of prime source material describing the inner workings of all Catholic religious orders active in the Netherlands, or operating from the Netherlands.
And a decent amount of first hand exposure to nuns and secondhand anecdotal evidence about nuns.
Sorry no clearcut scientifically studies available on some website in English.

 

[mioque]

"The priest and or nun has to go through official rcc schools (I'm assuming. Do they do mail order or home study ), so why aren't they being taught the correct doctrine? "
Priests usually are being taught the correct doctrine. That what seminary is for.
Nuns are a different case, they are not the female equivalent of the priesthood after all.
The education you receive as a novice in a convent is focussed on something alltogether different.
That doesn't mean Catholic doctrine isn't being taught, but it does often mean that if you don't understand a lot of it, but are otherwise doing fine during your noviciate you will become a nun, no questions asked.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an interesting testimony from somone brought up in the RCC.


Cradle Catholic finds new Light


He makes an interesting statement as follows

So here is my perspective as a "cradled and seasoned" (former) Catholic: I came into the Church through no thought or effort of my own. Someone had to carry me in. My baptism opened the gates of heaven to me, closing the unofficial portal of limbus enfantum (Limbo), where deceased, unbaptized infants are supposed to end up. With original sin effortlessly out of the way I was heavenbound with no fears, not even of Purgatory. But that would come. Concupiscence (my innate tendency to do evil) would get the better of me, and when I reached an age when I could understand I was doing wrong, and did it anyway, hell was my destination. After having been instructed in the theological facts of life, mortal sin, death, and damnation, First Confession looked good to this third-grader as a preparation for First Holy Communion. Now that which was formerly effortless and assured me of heaven was beginning to be a struggle.

I had to figure out the sins, separate the venial from the mortal, get to Confession before the mortal sins actually did send me to hell, get to Mass, not miss the Holy Days of Obligation (missing any one of ten per year consigns one to hell), try to get from Sunday Holy Communion to Saturday Confession without committing a cardinal sin. The lust-filled teenage years were like walking over red-hot glowing coals, all too real a reminder of where I could be headed. Grace through the Sacraments was supposed to make it easier; it did not for me, nor for anyone else I knew. And I even had an edge-my (middle) namesake, St. Aloysius, was the patron saint of youthful purity!!

The prospects ahead were iffy at best. Sometimes I could even put together a couple of mortal-sin-free, grace-building weeks. But then the bottom would drop out, actually a trap door with nothing below but fire and brimstone. My hope, at the very best, was to make it to Purgatory, which was not a place where I relished going because of all the purging and suffering for sins taking place there—but at least the threat of hell would be over..

Out of the Dark Ages - and into the light.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mioque]

"Ahhh - defending Catholicism with "obtuse fallacies" and refuting the Dallas Seminary --"
Click the link Bob, you know you want to

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a fascinating case where children lead the way for parents to "leave the dark ages".


Click on this link

A Child shall lead them

The profound simplicity of the verse grabbed Dave. He stopped, picked up his Bible, and went upstairs to show Barbara. To his astonishment, when he entered the room she too had stopped at John 3:16.

"Do you realize that if this verse is true," Dave said to Barbara, "it contradicts everything we know and believe as Catholics?"

The weeks that followed were filled with the excitement of making a great discovery. What they were reading seemed so different, so wonderfully different. As Catholics they were accustomed to the idea that they had to earn their way into heaven. Now they were coming to see from John’s gospel, Galatians, and Romans that salvation is the free gift of God. On the cross Jesus took their place, suffering for their sins. What they needed to do was put their faith in Him to save them.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Harley4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
"Do you realize that if this verse is true," Dave said to Barbara, "it contradicts everything we know and believe as Catholics?"

Bob, do you have a quote from one of your many catholic sources saying that they don't believe in John 3:16, or a catholic bible produced without that verse printed in a manner acceptable to true christians?

No? Hmmmmmmm. I guess that must be hidden in what you like to call the "details" of your pitiable thoughts.

 

[D28guy]

Bob Ryan,

You posted...

"So here is my perspective as a "cradled and seasoned" (former) Catholic: I came into the Church through no thought or effort of my own. Someone had to carry me in. My baptism opened the gates of heaven to me, closing the unofficial portal of limbus enfantum (Limbo), where deceased, unbaptized infants are supposed to end up. With original sin effortlessly out of the way I was heavenbound with no fears, not even of Purgatory. But that would come. Concupiscence (my innate tendency to do evil) would get the better of me, and when I reached an age when I could understand I was doing wrong, and did it anyway, hell was my destination. After having been instructed in the theological facts of life, mortal sin, death, and damnation, First Confession looked good to this third-grader as a preparation for First Holy Communion. Now that which was formerly effortless and assured me of heaven was beginning to be a struggle.

I had to figure out the sins, separate the venial from the mortal, get to Confession before the mortal sins actually did send me to hell, get to Mass, not miss the Holy Days of Obligation (missing any one of ten per year consigns one to hell), try to get from Sunday Holy Communion to Saturday Confession without committing a cardinal sin. The lust-filled teenage years were like walking over red-hot glowing coals, all too real a reminder of where I could be headed. Grace through the Sacraments was supposed to make it easier; it did not for me, nor for anyone else I knew. And I even had an edge-my (middle) namesake, St. Aloysius, was the patron saint of youthful purity!!

The prospects ahead were iffy at best. Sometimes I could even put together a couple of mortal-sin-free, grace-building weeks. But then the bottom would drop out, actually a trap door with nothing below but fire and brimstone. My hope, at the very best, was to make it to Purgatory, which was not a place where I relished going because of all the purging and suffering for sins taking place there—but at least the threat of hell would be over.."

That was absolutly classic.

It reminds me of this passage of scripture...

"But I fear. lest somehow, as the serpent decieved Eve with his craftiness, so you minds might be corrupted from the simplicity of Christ. For if one who comes preaches a different Jesus..."

God bless,

Mike

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by D28guy:

It reminds me of this passage of scripture...

"But I fear. lest somehow, as the serpent decieved Eve with his craftiness, so you minds might be corrupted from the simplicity of Christ. For if one who comes preaches a different Jesus..."

[/QB]

Excellent Mike! It is amazing - The Word of God still reads the heart of sinful human traditions and vain speculations today - as it did in the days of the Bible writers.

But in all that - His Word shines like a light in the darkness - in the dark ages - and the ages that follow.

Your point was well made.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan: quoting from the RC testimony provided --

"Do you realize that if this verse is true," Dave said to Barbara, "it contradicts everything we know and believe as Catholics?"

Harley said --

Bob, do you have a quote from one of your many catholic sources saying that they don't believe in John 3:16, or a catholic bible produced without that verse printed

In your rush to take up the banner of Catholicism and to attack me for quoting a Roman Catholic who published their personnal testimony - you seem to have "missed the details".

Maybe you should just read the article - before posting and blaming me for what they said.

In Christ,

Bob